In this episode, you are going to get a behind the scenes look at one element of Conscious Life & Style as a business and you’ll get to meet one member of the team: Abigail Davidson.
Abigail is my partnerships manager, and in this episode, we’re talking about all things brand and influencer (or creator) partnerships.
Abigail has a boutique agency, ADH Management, where she helps conscious creators increase their income and save them time through brand partnerships management and content optimization.
I have been working with Abigail for two years now and we always talk about so much in our monthly meetings, so I thought it would be really fun to sort of let you all in on some of our conversations.
Obviously, this is an interview and it’s going to be a bit more structured, and it’s also going to be more general rather than specific to Conscious Life & Style. But it definitely is going to give you some more transparency into how we do things over here, how we navigate the world of brand and creator partnerships, staying authentic, retaining high standards, while also trying to sustain Conscious Life & Style as a business.
In this conversation, Abigail is going to talk about:
- What the differences are between conscious creator-brand partnerships versus sort of typical or “mainstream” influencer partnerships, so to speak,
- Her thoughts on navigating the tough balance of trying to be a sustainable influencer,
- What the pros and cons are of working with small versus larger brands are,
- Her perspectives on gifting partnerships (i.e. when a brand wants to gift an item in exchange for something in return)
- And a TON of do’s and don’ts for both brands and creators.
If you have a friend who is a creator or a friend that owns a brand and partners with influencers and creators, send this episode to them if you think that they would find it useful!
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Read the Transcript From This Interview:
ELIZABETH
Hey there and welcome or welcome back to the Conscious Style Podcast, where we explore what it will take to create a more sustainable and fair future for fashion. I’m your host Elizabeth Joy.
And in this season of the podcast we are peeling back the curtain on various areas in the conscious fashion space. We’ve heard about the realities of the secondhand trade from Nikissi, how to launch a slow fashion business from Shannon, what it means to market more mindfully from Natalia, what personal style coaching is from Elyse, and we’ve gotten plenty of tips for starting a career in this industry from all of our guests so far.
Today, in keeping with this same theme, you are going to get a behind the scenes look at one element of Conscious Life & Style as a business and you’ll get to meet one member of the team: Abigail Davidson.
So Abigail is my partnerships manager, and in this episode, we’re talking about all things brand and influencer (or creator) partnerships.
Abigail has a boutique agency, ADH Management, where she helps conscious creators increase their income and save them time through brand partnerships management and content optimization.
And I have been working with Abigail for two years now and we always talk about so much in our monthly meetings and I thought it would be really fun to sort of let you all in on some of our conversations.
Obviously, this is an interview and it’s going to be a bit more structured, and it’s also going to be more general rather than specific to Conscious Life & Style.
But it definitely is going to give you some more transparency into how we do things over here. How we navigate the world of brand and creator partnerships, staying authentic, retaining high standards, while also trying to sustain Conscious Life & Style as a business.
And the questions here are going to be quite general and can apply to any brand or any influencer / creator in this space, but I think you’ll get an idea of our mindset around things.
So, in this conversation, Abigail is going to talk about:
- What the differences are between conscious creator-brand partnerships versus sort of typical or “mainstream” influencer partnerships, so to speak,
- Her thoughts on navigating the tough balance of trying to be a sustainable influencer, (a term that might sound like an oxymoron, like ethical marketing in the other episode).
She’ll also talk about:
- What the pros and cons are of working with small versus larger brands are,
- Her perspectives on gifting partnerships (i.e. when a brand wants to gift an item in exchange for something in return)
- And a TON of do’s and don’ts for both brands and creators.
As always, you can find the transcript for this episode — as well as all of the relevant links — in the show notes on consciouslifeandstyle.com
If you have a friend who is a creator or a friend that owns a brand and partners with influencers and creators, send this episode to them if you think that they would find it useful. Abigail has a lot of experience in the influencer or creator marketing space, and I always learn so much from her and value her insights, and this interview was no exception.
Alright, now this is a bit of a longer episode, so we’re going to get straight to it. Abigail is starting us off here with her journey to founding ADH Management and what she does today.
ABIGAIL
So my experience has kind of been a little bit all over the place. My degree is actually in psychology. So right out of college, I worked in mental health, and honestly burned out on that pretty quickly.
I did some other things in sales and marketing. But I’ve always been a writer, like even just as a kid, I always loved writing. And so at some point, I started my own blog, just because I wanted to, like it was just kind of a side hobby, about ethical fashion. It honestly, it didn’t really last very long, for a few different reasons. But that’s kind of what like, got me into this space.
And through that, I started VA-ing for another blogger in this space. And that’s kind of how I got into this world. And from there, it just kind of progressed organically, like I was doing a lot of different things for her. And so it was good, because I got like, a lot of different experience in different aspects of content creation, online marketing, just all of it, I guess.
But a big part of that was working with brands to manage partnerships, affiliate relationships, and things like that. And I discovered, I really liked doing that. I developed a lot of skills in that area. And then from there, I just kind of grew that aspect of things and kind of niched down, so to say, and kind of focused on the brand partnerships, part of things.
And then I started my own boutique agency and got some more clients. And that’s how I got here. So I just kind of like over time, kind of created my position that I’m in now, and it just happened really organically, which I’ve enjoyed. It’s been like a lot of trial and error.
And so yeah, now I manage, I still do, like a lot of, Jill of all trades type of, you know, like SEO and content creation and planning and things like that. But the main thing is managing brand partnerships. So like, if you have a blog, or a podcast, or a platform on Instagram, I help you to manage all of your sponsorships, your affiliate relationships and things like that.
So like, if you think about everything that goes into a sponsored partnership, like the pitching, negotiating, contracting, managing deliverables, delivering, like the analytics, and all of that, I basically manage all of that for creators so that they actually because all of that is very time consuming, and energy consuming. And most creators got into what they’re doing because they like to create and at a certain point in their business, or their creative journey, it gets to be a lot of emailing, things like that, and like not so much creating so…
ELIZABETH
Totally.
ABIGAIL
I try and take a lot of that off of their hands so that they can actually do what they like doing, which is creating content and interacting with their audience.
ELIZABETH
Yeah.
ABIGAIL
So that’s pretty much where I’m at now.
ELIZABETH
Yeah and definitely, what you described, Abigail, is totally what I experienced, just getting so tired of dealing with the emails. Like at first it was fun, and it was exciting to have brands reaching out but then it just got too much to handle.
So it’s just so nice to have you managing all of that and doing a way better job than I would do. Like we’re going to get into the nitty gritty for sure of like everything that you do. But yeah you are a crucial part of the Conscious Life and Style, brand or business and I feel you know, listeners, audience members don’t really see under the hood of like Conscious Life and Style. But I’m excited to have this conversation with you to let people in to the process a little bit more.
But before we get too much into the details, I think it would be great to clear up some of the confusion and talk about the difference between PR versus sponsored partnerships versus affiliate marketing. So could you break that all down for us?
ABIGAIL
Yeah, so they’re definitely all related, and they can overlap a lot. But I do think it’s important — especially for small brands, or startups who haven’t worked in this section of the industry very often, or very much before — it is important to differentiate between them. Because that’s just going to be an important part of your overall marketing strategy.
So when you’re talking about PR, that’s usually earned media, which is earned means free. So when you think about a brand that is, so say, I’m a journalist, and I’m writing about eco-friendly tennis shoes for a publication, but I’m not being paid to include a certain brand in that article, I just think that brand is cool. You know, they’re doing something that is really innovative or whatever sets them apart, and I’m just sharing that because I want to, and it’s free. That’s what’s called earned media.
And usually, when people or when brands are working on PR, they usually hire a PR agency and they just pay a retainer for that. And I mean, PR agencies cost a pretty penny, I mean, they’re gonna cost anywhere from like, five grand upwards to a lot.
And basically, what that person or agency is going to do is just do a ton of outreach, to just let everyone know about the brand. So that when people, journalists, creators, you know, whoever is creating content that is relevant for that brand, and they can like, keep that brand in mind, for their story or whatever.
With PR, nothing’s guaranteed. And so if a brand is thinking about hiring a PR agency, that is something to keep in mind is, it’s pretty hard to track ROI. And you can’t, yeah, there’s no guarantee in terms of specific deliverables and things like that.
Whereas with sponsored partnerships, usually that involves a flat fee upfront, and you’re going to have a lot more control over that type of content.
So in terms of deliverables whether it’s one post or one podcast sponsorship, you know, the specific deliverables that you’re going to get you have more control over that. You also usually get to approve the content before it goes live.
So it’s not that you have 100% control over what is said and how, but, and we’ll talk about that more later, but and you also, you can ask for more in terms of analytics and things like that. So, you know, whether it’s insights or pageviews, or downloads or whatever it is, you can ask for that type of information afterwards, whereas for PR, you can’t.
And then for affiliate marketing, that is where a brand will pay a commission on the sales — the number of sales that are driven by that creator. So if you include a brand in a blog article, and then I as a reader, go and buy something from that brand, from your blog article and then you would get, you know, 20% of the revenue from that sale.
And affiliate marketing is a lot like PR, in terms of the control that you have. There are of course exceptions, but a lot of times, as a brand, you’re not going to have as much control over when and where and how a creator includes you in their content with affiliate links and codes.
And like I said, there is a lot of overlap. So for example, I talk to PR people all the time. PR reps from brands will reach out to me, and sometimes that will turn into a sponsorship or an affiliate relationship, sometimes we just keep them in mind for any relevant editorial content that might be coming up in the future.
You know, so there is a lot of overlap. And I think that’s important for brands to keep in mind when they are, when you’re planning your overall marketing strategy, you know, which ones are you focused on? But then which ones are you open to as well?
Like, maybe you want to focus on affiliate marketing. And that’s kind of your main goal is to build up your affiliate list, but you would also be open to sponsored posts or partnerships, too, if that opportunity comes up. So, yeah.
ELIZABETH
Right. Yeah. And sometimes brands will do both, like they’ll sponsor and do affiliate links with the creator. It’s just, it’s very customized, I feel like it’s a little bit different with each brand.
ABIGAIL
Mhm, yeah. And I think that on both the brand and creator side of things, especially when you’re just starting out, and you’re kind of getting a feel of what works best for you, I think it’s just good to be open. And to play around and do some trial and error and see what works best for you, what you like doing the best, or works best for your audience and things like that, because everybody’s going to be a little bit different in terms of what type of partnerships and content ends up working the best for them for a variety of reasons.
ELIZABETH
Totally. Yeah. And later, we’ll talk a bit more about like, it might depend on your goals, like, is it awareness? Is it sales, etc? So yeah, lots to consider with that. But something that I’d love to ask you first is about, you know, how you work with consciously minded creators or sustainable creators, sustainable influencers and more thoughtful or conscious brands?
What is the difference between that versus like the typical agency-influencer-brand partner approach?
ABIGAIL
Yeah, so obviously, the most obvious difference is the creators and the brands that I’m working with are all ones that prioritize things like sustainability, fair wages, and safe working conditions for their workers, transparency for their customers. You know, brands who are really trying to do things responsibly and ethically.
And that goes for the creators too, you know, we don’t hike our prices up for sponsored posts, like we really work really hard on pricing our features in a way that is fair. We’re very intentional about that. We want to be transparent and ethical on our end as well.
Another difference is my agency really is mostly just me. And I have been very hesitant to expand my team because I have worked with other agencies before, and I’ve just had so many bad experiences working with agencies. Of course I’m not saying that they’re all bad or anything. I just have had a lot of negative experiences.
Where you know, so much gets dropped through the cracks, there’s a lot of communication, miscommunications and, I’ve had a lot of experiences where both sides of the partnership end up not super happy. Whereas when it’s just me, or mostly me, I can provide, like, very personal customized attention to both the brands and the creators.
So I think that’s something else that really makes it different from other agencies is it’s like when I say boutique, I mean, very boutique.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, no, I think that’s super interesting. Because it’s like, there’s, you know, we have slow fashion and fast fashion, and but we see this fast approach with everything, you know. Not just products, but also, you know, customer service. Brands are cheaping out on everything, and sort of the race to the bottom. And I think that can be said, with also PR or managing creators. Like, you can tell when people are rushing it.
And that’s no fault of the individual person, like they’re just trying to do their job. But like, how many clients was that one person given to manage? And is it too much on their plate? Are they managing too much and therefore having to rush everything? So I think that is also like a part of brand partnerships is finding that balance of not taking on too much to the extent that it’s very rushed, and no longer intentional.
I’ve also experienced that, where it’s like, things are falling through the cracks, they forget about you, You know, from the brand side of things, like I had worked on the brand side of things as well like with managing creator partnerships, and some agencies would sort of forget about us because we were a smaller brand and didn’t have like a massive budget. And that doesn’t feel great.
ABIGAIL
No, yeah, I think that’s good to hear from the brand side of things too.You know, cuz I think that yeah, when people are able to give personalized attention, it just it ends up working out better for everyone.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, for sure. So, the whole influencer space has built up a certain reputation over the years. One that is quite at odds with sustainability and the term sustainable influencer can feel almost like an oxymoron.
But something that we talk about a lot like you and me in our meetings is all of the nuances with being a conscious creator or sustainable influencer and what that involves. So could you share your thoughts on that?
ABIGAIL
Yeah, this is something that is really important to me. I mean, I hate the word influencer just as much as the next person but sometimes it is convenient because it is kind of like a catch all…
ELIZABETH
Yeah.
ABIGAIL
…you know, a term for a content creator that uses their platform to share things with people.
ELIZABETH
Yeah.
ABIGAIL
So, I don’t know if we can redeem the word or not but regardless. Yeah, so I really want to stress to people that, you know, to the creators out there that there is a way to do it that is not sleazy or salesy or pushy or inauthentic.
You can be an influencer or a content creator and use that to pay your bills. While you also keep it genuinely authentic and organic. You don’t have to sacrifice your values. You don’t have to sell out. All of the creators that I work with are very, very, very strict. Everyone has, you know, a little bit different of standards or like different things that they look for, different lines that they’ll draw, but everyone is very strict with who they work with.
And we say no to probably 95% of the brands that reach out to us wanting to work with us. So there’s a way to do it, while maintaining your integrity, maintaining that trust that you built with your audience. You just have to be intentional about it. You have to just be willing to say no, when something doesn’t feel right, or when it doesn’t meet your standards in terms of, you know, whether that’s materials that are used, or lack of transparency, or whatever it is, you know.
But the way that I look at it is we have to buy things anyway, like, we have to buy clothes. I have to have a mattress. So if I’m going to buy a mattress anyway, I want to buy an eco-friendly version. And so, I’m gonna go to you, to your website to look and when I’m in the market for a mattress, I’m going to go to your website and see what are the brands that you recommend.
So yeah, I guess I just really want to stress that you can do it without making sacrifices on your morals and your values.
ELIZABETH
Mhm.
ABIGAIL
The other thing, which I don’t want to get into go down a rabbit hole about it’s like, I’m, I guess I kind of consider myself like a hopeful realist, or something like that.
But, you know, the reality is we do live within capitalism. And, I know, like all of us in this space have struggled with that a lot over the years. Like, how do we live within capitalism when we do have to pay our bills? We do have to live and operate within systems that we disagree with and don’t like, and I really try and remember that… I try to not let perfect be the enemy of good.
And, so I guess as I would encourage any creators that might be listening to this to just think hard about where are your lines in terms of who you will work with, what type of content you will promote, what type of content you won’t promote? Things like that and that stuff is going to change over the years and that’s great too.
But yeah just be confident in yourself and your work and those places where you will and won’t draw your lines and then and then go with that and like you can feel good about it doesn’t have to be this thing that like the influencer world has turned into where it’s just like people sharing promo codes all day every day.
ELIZABETH
Totally. I feel like I sometimes still will feel guilty almost promoting something, even if it’s a brand that I really believe in because it’s, you know, I don’t want to push consumption, but I want to offer the options for people who are going to buy something anyway. I want to provide the best options if they’re going to buy that thing. And, you know, it’s just something that I wrestle with a little bit.
But it’s so true what you said about the lines changing, like, what I believed in, and what kind of brands I would promote, that has totally evolved, since I started Conscious Life & Style. Now, I pretty much will only work with smaller brands.
And before I did use to promote conscious — you know, never conscious collections from fast fashion brands — but other brands who maybe were making partial efforts and, anyway, I won’t get too much down that rabbit hole, but I’ve prioritized smaller brands now, way more.
And I think that is sort of aligned with this conscious approach to doing partnerships. But there are pros and cons in terms of working with smaller brands and you’ve experienced this as well, Abigail. So could you speak to that a bit? Like, what’s the difference between working with smaller brands versus larger ones?
ABIGAIL
Yeah, so as you can imagine, like, not always, of course, but usually the smaller brands have more direct experience with their direct contact with their suppliers and manufacturers. Like their supply chains tend to be a lot smaller and more close to them individually. You know, that the person that you’re actually dealing with, emailing with — that’s a big pro when it comes to transparency.
It’s a lot easier to get answers, most of the time from small brands, because it’s like a lot of times you’re emailing with the actual founder of the brand, and they have actually been to the factory themselves, and things like that.
ELIZABETH
Mhm.
ABIGAIL
The answers to your questions are a lot more readily available. Whereas with larger brands, sometimes the person that you’re talking with about the partnership has no idea about the actual factory, where the products are made, and things like that.
Another pro would be, they tend to be more flexible in terms of like, what types of partnerships to do. When it comes to larger brands, a lot of times, it’s like they have a very specific campaign that they’re working on, or very specific deliverables that they are looking for. And that may or may not feel good for you, or feel right for you in that moment as the creator or feel right for your audience.
And then it’s like, you’re, you’re just out of that partnership. Whereas with a smaller brand, it’s usually easier to say, that doesn’t really, I don’t think my audience would resonate with that specific campaign or messaging right now, but why don’t we do this? And then you know, pitch them an idea that would ultimately be better for them, because it’s going to resonate with your audience more. You know, nobody knows your audience like you do. So, you know, it’s easier to kind of pivot and make suggestions based on what would perform best for them.
ELIZABETH
Yeah.
ABIGAIL
That being said, small brands, obviously, don’t have as much of a budget. Again, that’s not always the case. A lot of times, big brands don’t have budgets, either or they will tell you that they don’t have budgets. And smaller brands too usually aren’t as experienced in the whole world of influencer partnerships and things like that so I do end up having to do quite a bit of education in terms of like, what’s what and what are the, you know, standard practices and things like that.
But that can actually be a good way for you to learn about the brand in terms of the way that they treat the people that they work with. Because when you’re in discussions with a brand about a potential partnership, there can be a lot of indicators, you know, that tell you like, the way that they treat you is going to be an indicator of the way that they treat their workers and things like that.
So in your talks with them, before you’re even solidifying a specific partnership, you can get a lot more info about what type of brand they are, and how they operate, kind of like an an overarching, holistic level.
ELIZABETH
Totally. Yeah, and something I would add to that is like, for brands, or if brand is hiring an agency to talk to creators on their behalf, like creators or influencers, you know, whatever you want to call them do talk and like, if you’re treating one creator poorly, or perhaps telling one creator, that you don’t have a budget, and that’s not true, like, people talk in this space, and that will get discovered.
So I think it’s just a good rule of thumb to operate very transparently, in everything that you do, including with influencers. If you like, don’t want to do a sponsored piece with a certain creator, maybe their prices are a bit out of your budget, or you don’t think that their audience is big enough, I mean that’s kind of a misconception, but anyway, for whatever reason, you don’t want to spend your budget on that creator, like saying you don’t have a budget, and kind of lying almost or fudging the truth. Like, that’s not, it’s gonna come out, and it doesn’t look good.
So just be upfront and say, whether it’s oh, you know, we’re only paying for people with above a certain number of followers or a certain engagement, that is a more honest answer.
And that also, as I said, there’s some misconceptions there with like, you know, micro influencers can be super valuable, and do deserve to get paid as well. But I won’t go into that just wanted to say, like, brands, like try to be honest and transparent with the creators that you’re working with,
ABIGAIL
Yes, there’s so much to be said, for clear and respectful communication, like it can go so far. And even if, even if a specific partnership ends up not working out, for whatever reason, that time, which this happens with me all the time, you know, something doesn’t work out now but it’ll, it’ll turn into something, six months down the road, or whatever.
And whereas if, especially now that I’ve been doing this for so long, the yellow and red flags, like I know them very well. And so whenever I see one, I’m pretty quick to cut a brand off and just be like, nope, we’re not working with you. You know, because they weren’t being respectful or, you know, whatever, whatever it was.
And so like, even if it doesn’t work out this time, just, yeah, like you were saying, communicate clearly and respectfully. And then, the next time that there’s an opportunity that they would be a good fit for, or whatever it is, you know, that can totally turn into something later on.
So, you know, I think that’s really important for brands and creators for everybody to keep in mind, like this is a long term game. And, sometimes pinching pennies up front, like in for the short term, really, you can end up kind of screwing yourself later on. So, just keep the long term in mind as well.
ELIZABETH
Totally. That is, yeah, a great point about the long term. As a brand you can always tell a creator like, you know, we’re gonna have to pass right now that’s not in our budget at the moment, but maybe it will be in the future. So you don’t sort of burn that bridge, I guess.
ABIGAIL
Yeah.
ELIZABETH
And when it comes to budgeting is something that comes up a lot with smaller brands, especially although we have experienced this with bigger brands as well, is gifting, or sampling?
And there are a lot of nuances with gifting and creator partnerships. So could you just speak to that a bit?
ABIGAIL
Yeah, I think it’s something that’s just important, it comes back to communication at the end of the day, I think. Obviously, sampling products is often an important part of this whole thing. Because a lot of times, in order for a creator to promote a product, they want to try it and make sure that they actually like it. That’s not always the case, obviously there’s always going to be exceptions, and depends on the creator, and different things. But, obviously, sending product is a big piece.
So when it comes to gifting, it’s important for people to keep in mind that gifting means gift, and it doesn’t mean payment. So like, you can’t pay your bills with organic cotton socks. You can’t pay me with organic cotton socks.
I wish that we could. Again, it comes back to like, we have to work within the systems that we have. So like system works with money. So we don’t do a lot of trading and bartering so…
ELIZABETH
Right. I can’t pay my rent with dresses, you know?
ABIGAIL
Yeah so back when the kind of like blogger influencer world, for started that was a lot more common for people to just send a free product, and then the creator will promote it, or share about it, just in exchange for free product. But really, that’s changed a lot.
You know, as the industry has developed, a lot of people are doing this as their full time gig. They have their own employees and contractors and costs to pay. I mean, it costs a lot to run a platform. You have your website, your, your all of your software, you’re not to mention, like all of your time and energy. I think that’s something that a lot of brands don’t understand is the amount of time and energy that it goes into running a platform, whether it’s a podcast or a blog, or even an Instagram platform, you know, it takes a lot. There’s just so many, there’s so much that goes into it behind the scenes.
Most people aren’t doing this as a fun side hobby anymore. Some people are, but like most of the people that you’re doing partnerships with are not. So yeah, when you’re sending a product, just know that when you say I want to gift you with something, that means I’m going to gift you with something.
And then I think it’s disrespectful when a brand comes, like sends you something and says it’s the gift and then comes back to you, you know, a few weeks later and says hey, will you do XYZ? Will you make a Reel? Do this post, blah, blah, blah, when that’s not anything that we agreed to before you sent the product.
ELIZABETH
Uh huh.
ABIGAIL
There’s a lot of assumptions going on there that should have been communicated clearly before you even sent anything out. And with conscious creators, too. There’s a struggle with, you know, minimalism and not over consuming. So, don’t send anyone something without consent.
Because you as the creator, or you’re trying to, like walk this, this balance of, you know, you want to help share these small brands, you want to provide good recommendations for your audience, while at the same time you’re trying not to like overflow your closet, and your home with all of these, all of this free product, because that’s kind of hypocritical.
So recognizing that, you know, that’s a balance that creators are always trying to find as well.
But yeah, so I think that basically it just comes back to respect, like just remembering that people can’t pay their bills with the product. If you really don’t have the budget to pay for something, whether that’s a flat fee sponsorship, or an affiliate commission or whatever, just say that.
So much comes back to the way in which you communicate with your potential partner. You can say, hey, we are a new brand, we don’t have much of a marketing budget, but I really value your work. I’d love to maybe do something sponsored in the future, when we have more of a budget.
But in the meantime, if you’re open to it, we’d love to gift you with a product. Obviously, there’s no obligation to share, we just would like to, we would just like you to try, or we just like to share what we have going on or whatever. That type of message can go a long way.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, and also in the vein of transparency, like you don’t want the creator to be promoting a product that they don’t genuinely like or love. So I think that also something for brands, that might not always be easy to acknowledge, but I think this is important that not everybody you gift to will like your product. And if they don’t like it, you also don’t really want as a brand for them to be promoting it and sort of telling their audience that they love it when they don’t.
But maybe that could be an opportunity for you to get some honest feedback from somebody on maybe what was missing from that product, or what didn’t work.
ABIGAIL
Yeah and it’s not always like something personal. Like, you tried the coconut creamer, which I love but you just don’t always like coconut things.
ELIZABETH
Right.
ABIGAIL
So it doesn’t really have anything to do with the product itself. It’s just like your personal preferences.
So as a brand, just remember that, maybe it does have something to do with your product, but maybe not. So maybe don’t assume that it’s something, you know..
ELIZABETH
Yeah that’s a great point.
So there’s so much we could talk about when it comes to brand-creator partnerships, and there’s no way that we could fit it into this hour or so.
So I think it would be really fun to do a little rapid fire with you if you’re up to it of some do’s and don’ts for brands and also for creators that you found over the years.
ABIGAIL
Alright, let’s do it!
ELIZABETH.
Could you start us off with some do’s and don’ts for brands?
ABIGAIL
Yes. One thing that I really strongly recommend that you do is remember that creators are also small businesses. I’ll get a lot of brands saying things like, we can’t pay this or that because our margins are small because we use sustainable fabrics and we pay our workers living wages and all those things.
But the truth is that the creators that you’re working with are in the exact same position. And most of the time you’re not working with someone who’s making a million dollars with their influencer platform. You know, like, you’re also working with a small business.
So just remember that in your communications, that you’re not the only one who has bills to pay and is working really hard on your business in your projects.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, and especially if creators have a team behind them. I mean, if we’re in this conscious space like we also I believe in paying our team members fair wages — obviously, I can’t speak for everybody, but you know…
ABIGAIL
Yeah, and that makes me think of another do which is, do your research and that your potential creator partners carefully. Because everyone that I work with, is trustworthy and creates great work and like, is not going to screw you over.
But obviously, there’s always going to be people in every single industry who are bad faith players or who like, don’t just aren’t, like producing good work, or whatever it is. So do your research on your creators, ask questions, things like that, to lower your risk.
I mean, it’s always going to be a little bit of a risk when you work with someone for the first time, because you never really know what it’s going to be like, and what kind of ROI you’re going to get and things like that. But, yeah, there’s things that you can do to lower your risk and make sure that it ends up being a positive partnership.
So just take — instead of kind of like throwing spaghetti at the wall, just take a little bit of extra time, especially if you do have a smaller marketing budget, you have to be more careful with it and more intentional. Just do your research beforehand, and make sure that you’re doing everything that you can to choose potential partners that really are really a good fit, are you think are the or have the best potential to be a good fit for you.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, that’s a great point. And I think going back to the conversation on gifting from before, I think it goes both ways in terms of the communication. Sometimes the influencers, or creators, ask the brands to send product.
I had that working on the brand side of things. And if you say that you want X, Y, and Z product, and in exchange, you will do XYZ, and then you receive the product, and you don’t do those deliverables like that’s not fair to this small conscious brand either.
So, yeah, being honest about the communication. And I think that in the end, gifting, gifting is really difficult. And I think that this is just a hypothesis, but it might be more expensive for you, in the long run to be sending all this gifting.
Because then influencers or creators don’t necessarily have this obligation to, you know, maybe create that content that you might expect, given the value of that product. And then on the creator side, you’re feeling like the brand doesn’t value you enough to pay you, but only enough to send you their inventory.
So like, sometimes the gifting I don’t know, is it worth it? Obviously, that depends on the brand, but just something I wanted to throw out there.
ABIGAIL
Yeah. And I would recommend, like if you do have a smaller marketing budget, instead of doing all gifting, which it might feel like the better option at first, because you are reaching a larger number of influencers, but I would recommend scaling back your list and working with less people at first and kind of growing out your partnerships, your list of partners slower, and replacing some of that product budget with some sponsorship budget.
And just taking a little bit more time doing a less, a smaller number of partnerships each month.
Because yeah, you’re probably going to get more out of each individual partnership when you’re doing like a formal flat fee sponsored partnership as opposed to just a product trade.
ELIZABETH
Yes, fewer better.
ABIGAIL
Yes. Another thing I would say is to do for brands is to trust. Of course, after you’ve done your vetting, and everything, like trust your creator partner with their content and their platforms. It’s kind of a pet peeve of mine when a brand… it’s almost like they’re treating the creator as like their employee, like the way that you would hire someone to manage your, your brand’s social media account or something like that.
It’s like you’re telling them the type of content to create, what to say, and kind of like precisely what type of content and voice to use and things like that. But when you’re working on creator partnerships, like they’re not your employee.
You’re hiring them to do what they do best and to — You know, they’ve built their platform so far, by being authentic, and by using their voice and by creating the type of content that they are creating. So you know, trust them to do that, as they share your brand.
There’s always going to be certain things that a brand is going to ask for, like, maybe there’s a few talking points that they want to make sure that the creator addresses or maybe there’s certain specific hashtags that they want you to use, or, you know, things like that, and that’s totally fine.
But try not to be super controlling over the specifics of the content, because that’s just not what you’re what you’re like, what you’re contracting them for. You’re not, you’re working with them, so that they can share your brand in the way that they do best.
So trust them to do that. Trust them that they know their audience and their content best.
Another do that I would say was like, usually, long term partnerships are better, just because of, you know, consumer behavior. On average, it takes seven to 12 interactions with a brand before a consumer actually makes a purchasing decision. So keep that in mind too, when you’re planning.
There’s less of a chance that you’re going to get an amazing ROI on just a one off post versus if you work with a creator for six months or a year or even longer. You’re just going to get a lot more out of that. It’s going to create a snowball effect, and it’s just gonna work out a lot better for you.
I know there’s definitely, there can be budgeting constraints with that, it’s hard to commit to a longer term partnership because it obviously means more money. But you know, that’s just something I would keep in mind as you’re doing your marketing strategy.
You can always test things at first with a specific creator partner that you haven’t worked with before, to kind of see how it goes. But I would definitely aim for longer term partnerships in like, kind of when you’re thinking about your big picture.
ELIZABETH
Uh hmmm.
ABIGAIL
The last do, I would say, for brands would be to plan out a lot further in advance than you think you need to. Because depending on what the content and the deliverables are, you know, it can take a while. And there’s, there’s a bunch of other stuff going on in terms of content creation, and calendars and things like that.
So if you’re wanting to be included in a holiday gift guide, for example, like we start those in like August, in September.
So it takes a while to you know, like, from the point of initial outreach to the actual deliverables have of being published. There’s a lot that happens in between then.
So just give yourself a lot more time than you think you might need before you, in between, like, when now and when your campaign, you want your campaign to go live or you know, whatever it is.
ELIZABETH
Especially if you want rounds of edits.
ABIGAIL
Yeah yeah. And people have different, like payment terms. And people have different work processes and things like that. So it’s always better to have more time.
ELIZABETH
Uh hmmm. Yeah, and some creators, like hire photographer, videographer, they work with an editor to edit the video. So there’s always more layers and more rounds and everything than you might originally think. And of course, the creator also was, as you mentioned, has other things on their calendar that were maybe planned in advance.
So yeah, for sure, I totally agree with that one really goes along with this theme of like, just like we believe in slow fashion and slowing down consumption. Slowing down in the sense that you plan ahead and give enough buffer time that you don’t have to rush and hustle. And the creator doesn’t have to stay up till midnight one night working to finish your project. Like it’s just about…
ABIGAIL
Mhm.
ELIZABETH
You wouldn’t want that for your workers, right? To be sewing your shirt until one in the morning. And also, you don’t want that for the creators that you’re working with, like you want to honor their time and give them enough time to create high quality content.
ABIGAIL
Mhm, yeah. And some creators will charge a premium too if expedited piece of content so you could end up saving money if you do it far enough in advance too.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, for sure. And how about the don’ts for brands?
ABIGAIL
I feel like I’ve said a lot of them already. You know, don’t gift product and then ask for content later, things like that. I would say another big don’t is to not DM your creator partners. Like don’t try to coordinate things over DMs.
Some creators don’t mind it. Some creators even like it, but a lot of them don’t. But nobody minds doing it over email, so I think it’s just better to assume that email is best. It’s better to keep a record and stay organized in email.
For a lot of creators, DMs is like where they’re interacting with their audience. And, you know, it’s kind of like more of a fun, casual, lighthearted place to do communication and not really like where they’re doing business. So email is definitely better than DMs.
And that kind of brings me to another don’t, which is, if the creator that you’re working with has a manager or a VA, or someone like myself in place, don’t go around that person to try to get to the creator specifically, like, by going into their DMs or something like that.
I totally, totally get why you would want to do that, because, you know, if you’re, if I have a product and that creator is sharing about that product, like, I totally get why someone would want to speak to that person directly and share about my brand and my product and things like that.
But, again, there’s so much that goes into building and maintaining that, that creator’s platform. There’s so much going on behind the scenes, that requires a ton of time and energy, and they’ve put that manager or VA or whoever, in place for a reason to help them manage that workload.
And it’s not that I take it personal or anything when someone tries to go around me, but I just think it’s really disrespectful to my clients, because they’re paying me. Like you’ve put me in place for a reason to help you to manage all of this stuff. And so when someone goes around me to try to get to you, it’s just, I think it’s a lack of respect for your boundaries and your systems that you’ve put in place.
If it’s something that’s really important to you that you talk to the creator, then just ask. And, yeah, again, like, we work with so many brands, that just, it would be nice, but like, you only have so many hours in your day. And if you spent all day just talking with brands, then you wouldn’t have the platform that you have to be able to share those brands in the first place.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, and like a personal connection can develop between the brand founder and the creator, but not on like a, like coordinating partnerships level, if that creator has a manager. You can also like just talk or when I’m tagging that brand, and their stories, they respond and they’re like, you know, cute or love it or whatever, you know, that’s like totally fine. And I’m totally fine with talking with brand owners on like, a casual basis over DMs.
But it’s just stressful, I think is the best way to say it when I have brands reaching out about partnership stuff. Because, yeah, we have our system in place, like brands email you, you kind of coalesce all this information, and then present it to me in you know, our tool Asana, or via email, or in our meeting, and it’s a much more streamlined way to sort of address all these brand questions or brand related, you know, partnership topics.
ABIGAIL
Yeah, yeah absolutely.
ELIZABETH
So now, let’s get into some do’s and don’ts for influencers or creators. So what do’s do you have?
ABIGAIL
Biggest one is to know your value and charge what you’re worth. Obviously, even though the influencer world has been around for a while now, it’s still.. is hard to know, you know, kind of like what’s the industry standard for pricing and things like that.
But there are a lot more resources than there used to be. And there’s always going to be a little bit of trial and error and updating your pricing and things like that, but especially in the conscious space, I have found that it’s so many creators undervalue themselves, partly because they really, truly empathize with these small sustainable brands, and they want to share them.
And they want to share them for a small price, because they know that they are working with small margins and don’t have a huge budget. And they just like want to do it out of the goodness of their heart. But at a certain point, that does become unsustainable.
And it does become a bit hypocritical also, because it’s like, if you’re advocating for fair wages for garment workers, but you’re not paying yourself a fair wage, then it just after a while, it doesn’t make a lot of sense.
So, yeah, you’ll get burnout, you’ll end up not loving this work that you started out of a personal passion and something that is meaningful to you.
So it’s very hard to do, I know. But try your best to charge what you’re worth — what you still think is fair, obviously. But yeah, don’t undervalue yourself. And remember that it’s not just sales that you’re bringing for people.
Like there’s a lot more that you’re bringing to the table for these brands than just selling products. Like you’re, you’re bringing them a warm and engaged audience that already trusts you, you’re giving them exposure and education, like all kinds of things that beyond just dollars and cents. So keep all of that in mind when you’re considering your pricing.
And also speaking about money, definitely, definitely diversify. Don’t put all your eggs in one basket, because you’re at the mercy of so many algorithms and things like that.
So obviously, don’t do anything that doesn’t feel like a good fit. But I would recommend doing some flat fee sponsorships, some affiliate marketing, if you feel comfortable doing ads on your website, if you can create your own products, whether that’s you know, like a course or an ebook, or even a physical product, things like that.
Try to get your traffic from different places. So diversify your traffic from Pinterest, search engines, Instagram just try to diversify as much as you can in a way that still feels comfortable for you. Like if you hate doing video, then like, forget about YouTube. You don’t have to, like do everything, but don’t put all of your eggs in just one basket.
Because if you do that, then at some point or other, you’re going to get screwed by somebody’s algorithm change. So…
ELIZABETH
Yeah. And then you know a lot of conscious creators, like Patreon, as well as like, one revenue source. I mean, I think in some rare cases, people can do it as their only revenue source though I can’t think of anybody at the moment who does that 100 percent. But that is like another idea.
ABIGAIL
Yeah and play around with it. I really believe in trial and error and trying different things, and just seeing what feels best for you and your personality and your work style and your audience and all of that kind of stuff.
ELIZABETH
Yeah.
ABIGAIL
I would say do definitely look at contracts when you’re doing your partnerships. Read them. Don’t just sign them blindly. Because you know… and have your own contracts to like, you know, there’s like templates and things that you can get online or you could hire a lawyer to like create a template for you so that you don’t have to necessarily have a lawyer look over every single contract because that obviously can be very costly.
But you can maybe work with them to create something for you, that you can kind of fill in the blanks. Because, yeah, just make sure that you’re comfortable with everything and that you’re protected.
It doesn’t happen very often. But it has happened before where even conscious brands don’t operate in an ethical way when it comes to the creators that they’re working with. So contracts are still important. I wish they weren’t, but they are.
So look for words like in perpetuity, because that means forever. And if you’re giving a brand the rights to your content, in perpetuity, that means you’re giving them the rights to use your photo, or whatever it is forever. Like so you know, words like that I avoid I, you can ask for revisions. Like if a brand send you a contract, you can, you know, redline it and say, take this out.
Think about things that you might not think about with regard to like, how your content will be used by them? And what kind of rights are giving them? So like, if you’re taking custom photography, will they be using their photos, and their own content? And in what ways and for how long?
Because, you know, if they’re going to use your photo for the next five years in all of their Facebook ad campaigns, then you need to be charging more for that, because that’s something that is worth a lot to them. And they would otherwise have to hire a photographer in house to create that content. So just making sure that you’re like looking over what you’re giving them the rights to and things like that.
Also, you know, I know, a few times when a creator has worked with a brand and then a couple years later that brand ends up maybe not being as ethical or sustainable as they once thought it was. And then that brand is still using that person’s photo, and it makes that creator uncomfortable, because like okay, I wouldn’t necessarily promote that brand nowadays. But it still looks like they are, because they’re still using the photo. So think about things like that, when it comes to like what you’re giving them the rights to.
ELIZABETH
Yes, that is such a good point. And my take on the perpetuity thing is like, no matter what price, I would never do that, because of what you just said. If something comes out about that brand later, or your values shifted, your lines changed about what you promote, like, you never know if that’s going to happen.
And as a conscious creator, you know, you got into this because you have high standards for like the brands that you’re standing behind. And like, you know, you want to keep the trust with your audience. And I think that this forever, or perpetuity clause or I don’t know if it’s a clause, but the wording is just important to avoid in my view.
ABIGAIL
Mhm. Yes. And also like, obviously, payment terms, is another important one to look for in contracting. A lot of my clients have different payment terms. So just like whatever you’re comfortable with.
Because there has been times when we’ve delivered on content, and then someone hasn’t paid for it. So…
ELIZABETH
Yeah.
ABIGAIL
…yeah, just make sure that you’re protected in that way to whether it’s you know, maybe you get 50% of the payment upfront, or whatever it is before you deliver the content.
ELIZABETH
And in terms of a refund policy, I feel like that’s good to include in a contract as well, whether you do refunds or not or partial refunds.
ABIGAIL
Mhm. Yeah. And again, there might be some trial and error there to figure out what feels comfortable. So don’t be afraid to edit your contract template as you go over the years.
And you don’t have to sign a formal agreement for every single partnership like — I personally only do them for a certain dollar amount or above. Because emails will go a long way. Like I try to do as much over email as possible because then everything’s in writing it’s clear. So you know if it’s like a smaller partnership, then email will suffice.
But yeah, once you’re getting into those high dollar amounts, I definitely that’s where I definitely make sure that agreements are signed and things like that.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, for sure.
ABIGAIL
Another do would be to have a media kit, even if you’re small, like, it makes such a big difference in how you come off to brands. As you know, it basically just communicates that like, I’m serious about this. I’m a professional, I know what I’m doing. I know my audience.
So honestly, if you just go on to Canva, there’s templates for media kits on there, and you can just use one of those. Especially in the beginning, like, it doesn’t have to be anything crazy. It can be one page that has a little about you, a few photos, your handles, and then like your audience sizes, your audience demographics, the types of sponsorships that are available.
You don’t even necessarily have to have a media kit that has all of your pricing and packages in it, at least not in the beginning. Because you can customize your pricing with whoever you’re talking to anyway, but just having at least something that kind of summarizes who you are and what your audience is like.
And you can spend like 30 minutes on that. And it can make a really big difference in how you’re like viewed by the brands that you’re talking to.
ELIZABETH
Mhm, and it can answer some of their questions, and maybe save you some time later.
ABIGAIL
Yeah, because they’re probably going to ask this question anyway, like what’s your traffic like? What’s your geolocation of your audience and things like that. So if you can just send them like one piece of paper that has most of those questions answered on it, that would be, that helps.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, totally. And when it comes to sort of being professional, I would say that it’s totally worth investing, like the $6 a month, or whatever it is, and having an email address associated with your domain. I believe G Suite is $6 per address. So the emails are from @consciouslifeandstyle.com instead of @gmail.com.
And this just looks a lot more trustworthy as well when there’s so many like spammers, or hackers or people pretending to be somebody else and tricking you over email. Like, it also adds this extra layer of security, I think, in your email communications that it’s not easy for someone to like, pretend to be you because you have your own domain.
ABIGAIL
Yeah absolutely. That’s a small and easy thing that can make a big difference to and like, how people view you and take you seriously.
ELIZABETH
Yeah. And I’d love to add like another do for like creators or influencers that I’ve found over the years. And that is definitely to set boundaries. Like, in every respect, like with brands, for instance, like I kind of have a boundary, like, I don’t want to respond to DMs about partnerships with brands. I’ll just send them Abigail’s email.
But also like, with your audience, are you going to answer every single question that they send to you over DM? Or don’t feel like you have to deal with trolls. That’s exhausting. And you’re going to burn out if you try to respond to every negative troll comment.
There is valuable feedback out there, but if someone is just like hating on you, and just being really mean you don’t have to put up with that.
And also setting boundaries with yourself, like, are you going to not be on Instagram on the weekends? Are you going to put your phone away at 8pm? Are you going to stop working at a certain time?
Like, those things are things that I need to get better at, but it’s really important, and it’s a work in progress but it’s just something to think about.
ABIGAIL
Yeah, and to think about your overall well being like in general, too. I mean, I’ve had conversations with every single one of the creators that I work with about Instagram and how it’s impacting their mental health.
And, you know, for some people like maybe it’s not worth it. I’ve had multiple creators who have very, who have either left Instagram completely or like, severely backed off from it just to focus on a different platform like their website.
One, because it just works better for like their followers and the brands too like, you know, just depending on the way that they built their platform like it can be, you know, you can get better, more traffic, better ROI and all that stuff from a different platform.
So it’s kind of like being strategic about where you’re spending your time. But also, if it’s, if it’s really hurting your mental health to be on a certain platform, then think hard about whether it’s even worth the the sponsorships that you might get from that platform.
You know, and then I have other creators who love Instagram, and it’s like, that’s their jam still. And it’s, they’re really good at managing the stress of it, like, it doesn’t really bother them as much. And that’s where, like most of their audience is and things like that.
So yeah, just don’t feel like you have to sacrifice your health for… like you don’t have to be on any certain platform. And I know that it feels like you do, but you don’t have to. Like even if that means spending six months or even a year transitioning away — like, if you are getting your most of your income from Instagram, maybe you’ll have to have a transition period.
But think about how you might strategize to do that for yourself for the long run, because I personally, just, I don’t think it’s worth it. It’s not worth it, to sacrifice your health for… to be on X platform, you know?
ELIZABETH
Yeah, no, that’s such good advice and something that I definitely struggle with. I have a love-hate relationship with Instagram for sure.
So… how about the don’ts for creators?
ABIGAIL
Well, I kind of already said this in like knowing your worth. But yeah, don’t undervalue yourself and what you offer to brands.
I think a big one is don’t take on something that you don’t feel good about. So like, do say no, as much as you feel as necessary. I personally think that usually, if you have a gut feeling about something, it doesn’t always mean your gut’s right. But a lot of times, your gut is right.
So like, if you feel weird about something, don’t do it. If you are getting bad vibes from a brand, don’t do it. If they’re not meeting your standards, like don’t make sacrifices on, you know, the standards that you have settled on for yourself.
And, kind of going along with that, like, if you are in the process of building your platform, if you can keep your job or keep like a side gig or like freelancing or whatever, like while you build your platform that can help, because then it kind of it creates some financial stability for you.
So that you can say no to things because obviously, like if you’re desperate to pay the bills, you’re going — I mean, that’s just human nature, like you’re going to be more likely to make concessions if you really need that money.
So build in some transition time for yourself. So that you can feel confident in saying no, and, you know, keeping your standards and things like that. Cuz that’s really, if you if you start making sacrifices like a your audience is not dumb, they’re gonna know.
And so, you know, I think that that’s one of the very most important things to keep in mind just kind of in general is that like I said before, this is a long term game so if you start making sacrifices on who you’re working with, or what products you’re promoting or whatever I think that could end up costing you in the long run. It’s going to end up costing you trust with your audience and overall just your brand overall so…
And that’s another reason why like you said people do Patreon too is so that, when something’s reader- funded, then it can allow creators to be a lot more strict with what they do and don’t say yes to. So yeah, just thinking about, like, what it really makes a difference, it really depends on like, what type of content you’re sharing, and what mediums and things like that. So just think about what feels like would work best for you.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, and you can also do like freelance work for some of these brands. You could even offer consulting services, if a brand is reaching out, and they’re not like super sustainable, but you can offer consulting services, if you know a lot about a certain field, you know you can like, instead of promoting them, they can pay you to sort of teach them about ways that they could improve.
Or you can do their social media, if you’re like, oh, I don’t really want to promote this brand because their branding isn’t really strong, I don’t think my audience is really going to like it, you can offer to, like, help them with their photography.
ABIGAIL
Mhm, yeah, think outside the box. Like you don’t have to always do the standard, sponsored post, or whatever you can get as creative as you want. And you can suggest anything that you would want to do for a brand. And just, it doesn’t hurt to throw things out there.
And you know, kind of see what they think and see what would work for both parties. Definitely get creative and don’t feel like you have to like, stick with the standard influencer packages that like most people offer, you can do whatever you want.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, yeah, I feel like that’s another like, I don’t know, do or don’t, depending on how you put it. Like, don’t be afraid to get creative with what you offer brands and how you create content. Like the sky’s the limit, like there aren’t worlds really, in this space. You can customize it however you see fit, and I think that’s a really exciting part about being a creator is like the creativity of it!
ABIGAIL
Mhm yeah. Absolutely. And I mean you as a self employed person, like you have to take advantage of the perks of being self employed. And so one of those things is doing what you want getting creative.
If you’re going to be self-employed, I think that you should enjoy it as much as you possibly can. I mean, there’s always going to be aspects of any job that that we don’t like, but it shouldn’t be, it shouldn’t always feel like a burden to do — like these partnerships should be fun, like they should be, for the most part, you know, like, it should be things that you want to be doing. So…
ELIZABETH
Yeah, absolutely. And that will probably lead to the best results for the brand and with your audience anyway, so…
There’s obviously even more that we could talk about. So, if people are looking for more advice and guidance from you, what do you offer and where can people find you online?
ABIGAIL
My website is just ADHmanagement.com you can always reach out to me at hello@ADHmanagement.com I’m not really on social media very much anymore.
But I do have a partnerships guide that is very lengthy. And it really like I didn’t leave anything out of it. It goes into a lot of the things that we’ve talked about today, but I really kind of get into the nitty gritty, and the weeds of things.
You know, like how to pitch and like even more do’s and don’ts and real life examples of real emails that I’ve received and what’s wrong with them and what’s right with them.
So it is, it is for specifically for brands but I think that creators would get a lot out of it as well. So if you want to check that out, it’s just adhmanagement.com/shop. And you can kind of get a peek at the table of contents and like some of the content that’s in there.
I do have a code for you and your listeners, which is, it’s just CONSCIOUSSTYLE, and you can get 10% off if you want to use that to grab the guide.
ELIZABETH
Cool, yeah, I’ll drop all of those links in the episode description and the show notes at consciouslifestyle.com. So that in case you’re listening to this in the car or wherever you are, you can reference those links later as well.
And then, the final question that I have for you that, you know, that I ask every guest that comes onto this show is what would a better future for fashion look like to you?
ABIGAIL
So I tend to think of things in a, I just think everything is interconnected. And I tend to think of things on a holistic level. And so when I think about the clothing that we wear, I think about what would it look like for our clothes to promote our own mental health and the health of the people who made the clothes, the health of the planet, and that we would wear clothes that are made well and that make us feel good.
Not just because it’s the right thing to do, even though obviously that is is an important aspect of it and not just because that that’s what like the consumer market is demanding, even though that’s also an important part of it.
But just because out of love and like I want to wear eco-friendly clothing because I love this earth and I love nature and I love the ecosystems that I’m surrounded by and that sustain me and everything else.
So when I think about the future of fashion I don’t know I kind of envision something we’re like motivated more out of love and care, as opposed to out of like whether it’s like what the market wants or whether it’s because we think it’s just the right thing to do we’re out of obligation or out of guilt and shame.
So I don’t know, I just think that that would be beautiful if we were just kind of all motivated more out of like love for each other and ourselves and the planet.
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ELIZABETH
And that’s a wrap for this episode with Abigail! Thanks for tuning in to this — slightly longer than average — episode. Let us know what you thought, by DM-ing us on Instagram or screenshotting this podcast episode on your phone and sharing on Instagram Stories.
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About Abigail:
With her boutique agency, ADH Management, Abigail manages brand partnerships for conscious creators in niches like sustainability, social impact, and holistic wellness. She loves supporting conscious creators by helping them monetize and grow their platforms so they can keep creating amazing content and leave an even more impactful ripple effect on our world.
Connect with Abigail & ADH Management
