How can journalists help shift the conversation on sustainability and labor rights in fashion? How can journalists navigate the sea of greenwashing in their inbox and even play a role in filtering out the greenwashing noise for all of us? We’re exploring all of these questions and more in this conversation with sustainable fashion journalist Jasmin Malik Chua.
Links From This Episode:
- Sourcing Journal
- Jasmin’s article on recycled polyester: “Cancer Alley”: A Cautionary Tale for Fashion’s Polyester Love Affair
- Jasmin’s article on H&M removing their “conscious choice” labels
- Jasmin’s articles on fast fashion greenwashing: H&M greenwash warning from the Norwegian Consumer Authority, Britain’s competition watchdog’s scrutiny of Asos and Boohoo, and Shein’s first Corporate Social Responsibility Report
- Jasmin’s article on the consequences of fast fashion’s waste and the exploitative buying practices of brands
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Read the Transcript From This Interview:
ELIZABETH
Hey there and welcome or welcome back to the podcast. Today I’m chatting with Jasmin Malik Chua, the Sourcing and Labor Editor at Sourcing Journal about greenwashing and sustainability in fashion from the vantage point of a journalist.
I’ve been reading Jasmin’s work for a while so I’m super excited that I got to talk with her for this interview.
You’re going to hear Jasmin talk about how the conversations of sustainability in fashion have evolved in the past 13 years that she’s been writing about eco-fashion, what role journalists have played and can play in moving the conversation forward in the industry, which topics she thinks are not being addressed enough in media when it comes to sustainability and ethics in fashion, and where she sees the most exciting progress in the industry happening.
Jasmin is also sharing some career advice for any who might be an aspiring sustainable fashion journalists and some advice on pitching journalists like herself, if you own a brand or are doing any, sort of, PR in your work.
I think that this advice also is useful for anyone who is a content creator, not just, maybe, a journalist, but also creating content for a podcast or a social media platform, and so on.
There’s really something for everyone in this episode so I hope that you’ll enjoy it!
Let me know what you think of this episode. You can find me and this podcast @consciousstyle on Instagram. And, yeah, if you like it, make sure to hit subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes, rate, review, share — all that good stuff!
And you can also find the transcript for this episode as well as the relevant links in the show notes those are over on our site, consciouslifeandstyle.com. And also the show notes will be linked in the episode description on your podcast listening app.
So without further ado, let’s get into this week’s episode. Jasmin is going to start us off with a bit about her background and what led to her interest in sustainable fashion.
JASMIN
I’m the sourcing and labor editor at Sourcing Journal we’re a B2B publication about the footwear and clothing industry. And I mostly write about retail, through the lens of sustainability and human rights.
Getting into fashion was actually a very convoluted route.
My college degree is actually in animal biology, and then my master’s degree was in biomedical journalism. So I meant to get into science journalism, and write about conservation issues, health issues, and things like that. And along the way, I started working for a website called Treehugger. It one of the very first environmental blogs on the internet. It was later purchased by Discovery.
When I was pregnant with my child, I was very emotionally tied, because of all the hormones to all the stories that I was writing about, you know, rainforest loss, and animals going extinct every day. And I wanted to write something a little bit more cheerful. So the team said, you know, why don’t you just write about this fashion show that’s coming up and take a break?
So I started doing that, that was around the time that you know, the concept of eco-fashion was first coming up. And the idea of you know, using organic cotton, hemp silks and things like that, was still a very brand new idea at the time. And so I just started going to fashion shows for companies like Eden, which was founded by Bono. That was one of the first major luxury brands to really invest in the idea of sustainability at that time. And it just, it just went on there.
And of course, fashion turned out not to be a celebratory, cheerful industry, after all, the more I learned, the more horrifying it turned out to be. But you know, once you step on that you can’t not look away after a certain point. And it just became my beat.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, that is super interesting that they had you go into fashion because they thought it would be this light, bright thing, and then you unravel all the layers and the realities of what goes behind the scenes in the fashion industry. So that is super, super interesting.
And I would love to talk a little bit about how you got to the position that you got to because a lot of our audience is really interested in building a career in the conscious fashion space. And I would say that many people would consider what you’re doing today as a dream job, as a sustainable fashion journalist.
So of course, you shared a little bit about your journey. But can you share a little bit more in terms of the technicalities of how you became the Sourcing and Labor Editor at Sourcing Journal? Like if you have any career-related tips for listeners?
JASMIN
Oh, so what happened was while I was at Treehugger, I left the full-time position at Treehugger, I started doing it part-time when my daughter was born.
And then when she was a year old, In Habitat, which was another eco blog at the time that was more focused on architecture decided to spin off a version of its site to cover fashion. And so Jill Fehrenbacher, the Editor-In-Chief rang me up and said, you know, do you want to head the site, and the site was called Ecoterre.
And I think we were the first if not one of the first websites to solely devote ourselves to eco fashion news and trends and so on. And so you Ecoterre lasted until 2017, I believe.
And then after that, the site folded, because of, you know, troubles with advertising and so on, I don’t need to bore you with all that stuff.
So then I started freelancing. And I still wrote a lot about sustainable fashion and everything as well but I also wrote about other stuff. And then last — I started freelancing for for Sourcing Journal, at the same time, you know, writing about sustainability, and labor rights as well.
And then about nearly two years ago, they asked me to come on board full time, you know, just because they wanted to build up their team a little bit more. And so that was when I went back into the full time job world, I guess.
ELIZABETH
So is that something that happens often, like starting with freelance and then kind of coming on board to a media publication as full-time. Is that often how it works, you would say?
JASMIN
I guess different people have different journeys. You know, media isn’t the most stable of industries. A lot of publications come and go.
And then finding the right fit can take some time but, you know freelancing can help, you know because you can develop relationships with certain publications, and you can see if they mesh better in terms of what you’re covering and what they’re looking for.
And that was definitely the case with Sourcing Journal, you know, we worked so well together that we decided to just formalize our relationship and just double down on doing that.
ELIZABETH
Yeah that makes sense. I know from like my experiences freelancing, which was more from a marketing area, you know, social media marketing, affiliate marketing, and that kind of stuff, I learned a lot about what I actually enjoyed, and what sorts of relationships, like working relationships were working versus maybe not so much. And I learned a lot in terms of building then my own business.
So I think that freelancing can help a lot on your journey towards a career in conscious fashion or in other spaces sometimes.
JASMIN
Definitely. Yeah.
ELIZABETH
So you mentioned that you kind of started writing about eco fashion, when the industry was just sort of sprouting. So can you tell us a bit about how conversations around sustainability in fashion have shifted during your career in journalism thus far?
JASMIN
It definitely started really taking off around 2009. So you know it’s been a while. And I remember what was really frustrating in the beginning was that no one really understood what the idea of more sustainable fashion was. There was a lot of associations with being a hippie. Every article about sustainable fashion mention wearing dresses made out of hemp sacks.
Which was really strange. I know, I had someone, one person asked me like, why should we care about organic cotton, we’re not going to eat the cotton. So there was a lot of fundamental misunderstanding about what it was in terms of impacts for the environment, and we weren’t even talking about workers even at the time.
It was only in 2013, when the Rana Plaza collapse happened in Bangladesh that workers’ rights really surged to the forefront. Before that there was some idea that sweatshops were happening, you know, in the 80s and 90s. We were talking about Nike, and things like that.
But I think it really hit the public consciousness in such a major shocking way in 2013. That was such a watershed moment, I think for the industry and the way consumers engaged with the idea of fashion. That it wasn’t something that was frivolous and had no impact on things around them.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, that’s super interesting. And yeah, I know that there are these sort of, I don’t know, stereotypes or cliches about hemp sacks. So it’s funny that like people literally were writing that that was what sustainable fashion was.
JASMIN
It was every article that I read at that time. They always had to mention it. I was like, so befuddled by it.
ELIZABETH
Wild. Yeah. And one specific topic that I’m thinking about where the conversation has shifted significantly, in recent years from like, maybe when I first started on my own conscious fashion journey, personally, and also with my writing, is recycled synthetics.
So I feel like years ago, these were promoted as a really impressive circular solution. But now more and more experts are questioning the sustainability and even the safety of recycling plastic bottles for clothes.
So there’s all these layers that I guess are coming up in the conversation now that are sort of complicating it. You know I think for awhile, fashion thought that recycled plastic water bottle materials were like a silver bullet.
JASMIN
Oh, yes, absolutely. Definitely. Especially in the beginning that, you know, I fell into that same trap, too. I was like, ‘Yeah, you know, it’s you’re making it out on our waste. That’s perfect.’
And I think the advent of the internet and social media has allowed for more nuanced conversations about this you know, where we are able to get different points of view.
And you are absolutely right. In recent years we’ve realized that when you take a plastic bottle, and turn it into clothing, you’re taking it away from a stream that actually is circular and can be remade into other bottles, like many times. Whereas once you make it into a garment, there is no way to re-recycle it at scale.
So it is a circularity deadend. And I know that there are environmental campaigners as well that argue that you are still benefiting from a fossil fuel system that really needs to be re-examined and abolished, really.
So it’s interesting how conversations have shifted and evolved. And I think that should be the nature of things. The more we learn, the more we hone our understanding of things.
ELIZABETH
Yes, absolutely. I love how you put that, like the conversations evolve. And I think that’s natural. Because yeah, I also was really excited about these recycled plastic water bottle leggings. And maybe that was like one of the more innovative things out on the market a few years ago, but the conversation has sort of shifted.
Sometimes I get frustrated, like, oh, we’re not moving the needle fast enough and you know, when it comes to sustainability, and labor rights in fashion. And in many ways, we’re not. But also sometimes when we look back, we see, okay, the conversation really has grown a lot. And we really have, we really have, like I think, gotten deeper and more knowledgeable about these issues as an industry.
You mentioned social media, which I think is definitely a huge factor just more voices, more perspectives having access to sharing their perspectives. It also feels to me that journalists play a pivotal role in this shift.
How do you think journalists can play a role in shifting these conversations and making sure that we’re sort of continuing this evolution in the sustainable fashion space?
JASMIN
I think journalists, just like consumers need to think critically, if not even more critically about these issues. It used to be when a brand would release a capsule collection, people would be like, whoa, this is guilt-free — you know, pollution is solved. That kind of thing. [Laughs]
ELIZABETH
[Laughs]JASMIN
And even today you do see a lot of the fashion bibles with headlines saying, ‘This collection is completely better for the environment. You don’t have to worry about this and that.’ And I think these simplistic arguments are really easy to fall into.
I know there is a desire, you know, to keep consuming without the guilt and the thinking that goes into it. You know, fashion should be fun, right?
And I think journalists need to think critically about how they frame these issues, you know, just in general, even if they’re trying to sell the clothing that their magazines are advertising for.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, definitely finding that balance. And I’m with you, the guilt free stuff never sits right. So, yeah, the reframing, I think, is a great way of thinking about it.
When it comes to sorting through all the pitches that I’m sure that you get to your email, how do you navigate the sort of sea of pitches and maybe capsule collections and initiatives from brands and try to avoid greenwashing as much as possible?
JASMIN
That’s a nice thing about the work that I do at Sourcing Journal. I’m not really a market editor. And so I don’t write about the latest tank top or what the trends are in skirts. I look more at minimum wages in Cambodia, or more like big picture things like, is the industry falling into a greenwashing trap?
So I sometimes write about products. Like Allbirds just released a plant-based leather, but that’s probably like 10 to 20% of what I do. My work really isn’t product-focused. It’s more of a bigger-picture scenario.
ELIZABETH
Mm hmm. Yeah. And I’m mostly centered on the sustainability section of the Sourcing Journal website. That’s kind of where I stay. But it feels like Sourcing Journal does promote products less so than, like a big consumer facing magazines since Sourcing Journal’s sort of more industry-focused.
JASMIN 17:18
Yeah, absolutely. That’s our audience. You know, it’s industry executives, brands, designers, supply chain, people, it’s more of the nitty-gritty of how the industry operates.
ELIZABETH
Yeah.
So a topic that you’ve written several articles on is about various elements of the fast fashion business model and like consequences so like about fast fashions waste crisis, as well as some of the exploitative buying practices.
I actually wanted to ask you this before the big announcement of Kourtney Kardashian’s collaboration with boohoo as their sustainability ambassador came out. But I wanted to ask you, do you ever foresee a case where fast fashion brands’ sustainability efforts could be seen as something beyond greenwashing, like, do you think that their sustainability efforts could actually be really green?
JASMIN
It’s really hard to say, right? Because there are fast fashion brands, including H&M, that I do believe are doing really good work in the space. And they have made significant headway in their efforts.
But there is the other argument that, you know, if you’re not reducing your consumption, your production levels, even if everything is perfectly green, there’s just no way you can find the resources or have the fair labor practices that all that would require, because the pace is just unsustainable.
So you have to weigh those two sides of it, you know. Do we really need 5 million organic cotton T-shirts every year?
ELIZABETH
Yeah, totally. And I’ve also read several of your articles about like fast fashion brands, sort of getting these greenwashing warnings from regulators like H&M with the Norwegian Consumer Authority, Britain’s competition watchdog scrutiny of ASOS and boohoo and the criticisms that came out of SHEIN’s first corporate social responsibility report.
So can you speak to the role of journalists in raising awareness in trying to combat or minimize greenwashing in fashion?
JASMIN
Well, I think the world that I see that journalists play is to just to ask the tough questions. You know, where you’re either a journalist, or you’re just aping a press release.
ELIZABETH
Mm.
JASMIN
So I think it’s important not to take statements from brands at face value, and as I mentioned before, really look critically at what they’re saying. And comparing it to what they’re actually doing, and what the consequences of those actions might really be.
In Kourtney Kardashian’s case, the sustainable materials that they talked about was, like made from recycled plastic bottles, which we just mentioned has its issues. But they also lumped in pleather, you know, vegan leather with sustainable materials. And right now vegan leather is made from petroleum. It’s polyurethane. And that is, I think, the opposite of sustainable.
The story that I wrote, boohoo mentioned traceable cotton, and as one of my sources said, it doesn’t elaborate on what traceable means. Traceable for what? Traceable for who? And it’s things like that. It’s easy to get caught up in buzzwords and things like that. But I think we need to start like looking beyond that to find the actual meaning and intent of those words.
Because words should have meaning. And the term sustainability has lost a lot of that because of this erosion of specificity that the concept really demands.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, absolutely. So I had a previous conversation with Kestrel Jenkins, who is the host of the Conscious Chatter.
JASMIN
Oh yeah, love her. She used to work for Ecoterre.
ELIZABETH
Oh, my gosh, that’s amazing. Yeah and we were talking about like slowing down media and slow media and how, like media moves just like you know, just like social media, media also moves so quickly. And sometimes that might be why we get some of these perhaps oversimplified stories.
And if you know maybe a journalist who isn’t as educated on sustainability issues as you are and labor issues as you are, they receive this press release from a fast fashion brand and they they might genuinely believe that that is sustainable. Because maybe they have two hours to turn that press release into an article and get it up by the end of the day, or whatever it is.
How do you think like the speed of media might play into this greenwashing Or maybe sometimes, like oversimplification of stories? Do you see that happening at all?
JASMIN
I 100% agree with you. The pace of media today is insane. I mean, I’m like, probably a backlog like three months deep right now. Because, you know, I start working on the story, and then the news comes up, and with social media, with the internet, the pace is just unrelenting, you get the news right away.
And, of course, the world’s a mess right now, right? With wars happening, sanctions happening, human rights violations happening. I think it’s really easy to get overwhelmed and, you know, really stretched thin.
I do have great empathy for my fellow journalists who are just trying to get the work done, so that they can just take the rest — clock out at a decent hour and get on with their lives. I do and I myself, you know, sometimes I just want to like just give me your press release to just write from , because I’m just exhausted, there are moments like that.
Yeah, I don’t know, I don’t have an answer for that. Because it’s something that I’m grappling with myself, just to the speed of everything. And just you’re just one person most of the time with smaller teams. So it can be a little crazy.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, no, I mean, that’s just really interesting to have that insight into what maybe is like, on the ground, so to speak as a journalist. And just like what the expectations are.
And even running like my own website, I struggle with that like this theoretical pressure to produce a certain amount of content and to post on social media every day, to get this podcast out every week, to have several new articles on the website every week.
It can feel like you’re fighting against everything to slow down and even more so if you are working for a media publication that maybe has a certain number of articles that they expect you to write per week. And it can be a real challenge for sure.
JASMIN
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
ELIZABETH
And going back a little bit to the greenwashing. Do you think that these criticisms of the greenwashing campaigns, like as journalists start to maybe be more scrutinizing, like I think the conversation is definitely evolving? Do you think that that deters their behavior at all?
JASMIN
Oh, if companies are being fined for what they’re doing, if there is a fiscal penalty, that will change their behavior overnight, companies do not like to lose money for no reason at all.
And I think that is why you know, campaigners have been trying to move away from this model of self-regulation and voluntary measures where there are no such penalties, to something that is more binding and has real consequences for the brands and the companies.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, absolutely. I just saw a story like this morning about H&M’s Conscious collection, like they’re going to remove a lot of this sustainability language from their website, as they navigate how to communicate that more effectively. Because they have been getting a lot of warnings and potentially, fines, or at least the risk of fines. I haven’t looked into the details of that yet. But I’m very anxious to do that later today.
JASMIN
Yes that’s one of the stories on my never ending list I’m trying to get to and I’m just like, I wish I could pause time or clone myself or something.
ELIZABETH
Totally. Yeah. And that kind of leads into another question that I had for you, which is something that I definitely struggle with as a content creator.
How do you choose which topics to focus…like there’s just so much within even sustainable fashion. LIke, it sounds like it’s such a really small niche, but there’s, the more you get into it, there’s just dozens and hundreds of potential topics and issues that you could talk about.
And sometimes I’ll get direct messages on Instagram. Like, you know, talk about this, or talk about that talk about this, and there’s also so many things just out of personal interests that I would like to dive into, and how do you figure that out?
JASMIN
It’s like an ER doctor during triage, you know, you kind of want to figure out, which is the most time sensitive, the one has the biggest impact, for example, something like the UN releasing their long awaited report on Xinjiang, and the the mistreatment of Uyghurs. So that was something that would be like, a priority, and everything else would, pale in comparison, because it’s such a major news story.
In some cases, there are themes happening, and then you can roll them all into one mega story. For example, if different brands are getting greenwashing warnings, and then you could say something like the industry is dealing with this, and you could say, XYZ brand, you could roll it all into one piece.
Like I did a story about different protests, labor protests happening in different parts of the world, in, you know, Bangladesh, Cambodia, Haiti, and things like that. So that could be rolled into one piece, because they’re all about workers demanding a better pay that can actually give them the livelihoods that is beyond the base poverty level that they’re struggling with.
So, that is another way I’ve done it. Mostly, it’s like a game of Whack a Mole, you know, you’re just trying to like, get ahead of yourself. And it can be a struggle, I have to admit. It’s not easy.
ELIZABETH 32:10
Yeah. But that’s a really interesting, and I think, useful idea to find several events, maybe that are along a similar thread and bringing that together, because I think that also helps readers find the connections between all these issues, and not always view it as isolated events.
Because I do think that a lot of the time, news stories will be just talking about that one isolated event. And I actually think it’s quite helpful to see it through, like well, there’s 10 labor protests happening all over the world, and what does this say about the state of labor in the fashion industry?
JASMIN
Exactly.
ELIZABETH
And sort of, yeah, challenging, maybe readers to think a little bit deeper, rather than just oh, this happened, this happened, this happened.
JASMIN
Right you’re providing context for it. For example, with H&M, it’s not just that one greenwashing lawsuit, but several brands are grappling with regulators casting scrutiny on their green claims. And so there is a larger reckoning in different parts of the world on this issue.
ELIZABETH
Totally, totally. And are there any areas of sustainability and labor rights that you think we’re not seeing enough discussions about in the media currently?
JASMIN
I think from talking with a lot of labor and environmental campaigners, there seem to be a lack of ownership from brands about their role in that they play in promoting sub-poverty levels and pollution in the Global South, especially.
We hear a lot about brands’ codes of conduct and how they’ve pledged to behave a certain way, but that doesn’t always bear out in practice.
And I think, from the people that I’ve spoken with, they would like to see brands being held more to account by the mainstream media for the impact that they have and the outsized influence that they have, that they can change things if they wanted to.
ELIZABETH
Hmm, yeah, that’s really interesting. And I think also a little bit reassuring because sometimes I really like, I maybe call out brands too much. But that’s reassuring.
And I recently received a comment when I was calling out a brand. Someone said, you’re poking at the wrong end like, consumers want cheap products. And so you should, you know, focus on consumer awareness more. Do you have any thoughts on that point of view? Like what would you say to that?
JASMIN
Well, for one thing, I don’t think it’s an either or, I mean, you shouldn’t have to pick a lane?
ELIZABETH
Right.
JASMIN
And second of all, I think same with recycling, there’s been, like, so much pressure on the consumer to do it right, whereas corporations with just some changes in their supply chain, could have infinitely greater change from their side.
I think there’s a lot of guilting consumers, because maybe it’s an easy way out for corporations not to take responsibility for their actions. I do think that needs to change. I mean, that’s not to say that, you know, we shouldn’t do anything. But right now, I think a lot of the burden is being put on the consumer and not enough on the companies that have greater power, and the ability to change things.
ELIZABETH
Right? Totally. Yeah, I’m 100% with you, like, it’s not like we have to pick one or the other. We can sort of come at it at all ends from educating individuals, pushing for regulatory action, and also holding brands accountable. Like we can do it all, there’s nothing that says that there’s only one avenue towards change.
JASMIN
Absolutely
ELIZABETH
Yeah, and I think they all can like build on each other as well and sort of influence each other.
I once heard this sort of explanation of educating the sort of educating people on issues makes the legislation more likely to be able to pass because we’ve sort of shifted the culture, and it makes it a more friendly environment for that legislation then to pass because you see, a lot of people also saying, well, individual action doesn’t matter. You know, legislation is all that matters.
And I am more interested in seeing sort of like the connections between it all and not putting undue pressure on individuals, obviously, but also not making people feel like what they’re doing doesn’t matter, either.
JASMIN
Yeah, of course, consumers have so much power to change things. I’m always reminded about how 2009, when it was really the consumer-led protest over BPA in plastic that really stopped companies from doing that, and selling alternatives.
Yes, consumers definitely have power. It shouldn’t be a binary. I think every stakeholder has a role to play: regulators, brands, consumers. I don’t think the blame should be put on one or the other. But, you know, you will also look at who has more systemic power as well. And who should be really called out more?
ELIZABETH
Yeah, I think. That has definitely been like an evolution of my journey. And I feel like also a by-product of that. My platform as well focusing a lot more on holding brands accountable, digging deeper into the systemic issues.
And making people feel like they can make a difference, but also like encouraging people to be part of collective actions through Remake, an incredible fashion advocacy organization that organizes around certain campaigns or Clean Clothes Campaign. When we all come together we can really push for for more change as well.
But to shift a little bit into maybe a bit more positive note, are there areas in the fashion industry that you’ve seen a lot of progress on in recent years?
JASMIN
I think legislation is definitely one to watch, you know, mandatory due diligence. Laws that coming out regarding forced labor, I think in particular in response to what’s happening in Xinjiang has been at the forefront and hopefully, it will pave the way for more regulation.
The EU is really a front-runner with their corporate sustainability due diligence law, as well as the various strategies they have for the textile industry, including things like extended producer responsibility, greenwashing claims, and just the minimum sustainability criteria that products should have.
So I’m hopeful that we will see more of that, because, you know, that is what will really spark change. Just waiting around for companies to do the right thing is kind of just a lot of hoping and wishing.
ELIZABETH
[Laughs]JASMIN
Maybe like 10% might do it. But we’re really looking at, you know, the bottom half of the, the bottom, like 90% of the glacier that is not doing anything about their practices, and that’s what we really need to tackle through legislation.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I’m also excited to see all the progress with that. And yeah, the EU seems way far ahead but a lot of fast fashion brands are based in the EU as well as in the UK. A lot of the biggest, fast fashion brands are based there so I think that can have a vast impact even on the US because, you know, we see the huge Zara’s, the huge H&M’s and all that in the US as well.
It is encouraging to see the FABRIC act in the US that’s been getting some more support. So hopefully, hopefully, we’ll see more progress with that as well.
JASMIN
Yeah, right, especially in the one that’s happening in New York as well. Hopefully, it gets off the ground during the next voting period. There’s a lot of good stuff happening. Like, you know, California passed their law, requiring minimum wages for workers. That was a huge victory for them. It was so so hard won, and I’m so happy that it turned out okay.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, absolutely. And as we close out our conversation here, I was wondering if you could share any tips for anyone listening there that might want to pitch you or another journalist a story.
Do you look for anything in a pitch, what determines if you just skim a pitch or delete a pitch versus want to go with that story?
JASMIN
For me, personally, if it’s a product post, I’m not really going to look at it unless it’s something super groundbreaking, like in the case of Allbirds making their plant-based leather that doesn’t have any petrochemicals, because that’s super rare.
So it has to be something that has a larger effect on the industry, larger significance to the industry. I’m not going to write about, you know, yoga leggings made of recycled plastic bottles, because that’s not something that’s going to move the needle in any direction. That’s for me, personally.
I mean, other reporters who write more about products that will think differently. So it really depends on who you’re approaching? You know we’re not a monolith by any means. Yeah. So it depends on the publication, depends on the journalist, depends on the editor, and so on.
ELIZABETH
Mhmm yeah, so maybe doing some research before sending out pitches researching the media publication, and the journalist before pitching a story.
JASMIN
Oh, yes, please, I get so much non-fashion pitches. I’ve been getting emails about a plant-based water, which to me is just fruit juice.
ELIZABETH
Huh? [Laughs]
JASMIN
If you’re a PR person, it really helps to do that two-second Google look-up of the publication covers.
ELIZABETH
Yeah, totally. I mean, I still get emails to this email address that I haven’t put anywhere in like four years. Someone sold off the email address to some lists, and I still get like ridiculous pitches to that email address and I’m just thinking like, how little time did you spend?
Or I’ll get an email that says like, dear sir / madam. And I’m like you couldn’t even do like two seconds to see the name of the person that you’re emailing. So it’s funny…
JASMIN
Yeah. Please tell people to stop sending me stories about quiet quitting because I don’t write about that.
ELIZABETH
Yes, PSA! That’s funny.
So Jasmin, thank you so much for spending this past hour with me and sharing all your perspectives and insights. This was really fascinating and I’m sure listeners will get a lot out of it as well.
I do have one final question for you that I ask everyone that comes onto the show. And that is what would a better future for fashion look like to you?
JASMIN
Just equity for everyone involved, you know, not just brands holding all the power and the money. But even the lowest paid worker in the supply chain should have that sense of autonomy, empowerment, and the ability to provide for themselves and their families.
ELIZABETH
And that’s a wrap for this episode with Jasmin! Thank you so much for tuning in today. Make sure to subscribe or follow the show in your favorite podcast listening app so you don’t miss more episodes like this one.
And if you want to get more conscious style, conscious fashion content subscribe to our free weekly newsletter The Conscious Edit at consciouslifeandstyle.com/edit. I share articles, books, podcasts, videos, events, campaigns, brands, and all that good stuff.
Subscribers also get access to a 10-page list of sustainable fashion educational resources as a little welcome gift. And so if you are interested in that you can find the signup link in the episode description.
So I’m looking forward to seeing you in your inbox on Saturday if you’re a subscriber or I’ll catch you again here in your podcast app next Tuesday.
In the meantime, if you want to listen to another interview that has similar themes to this one, tune in to episode 54 with Kestrel Jenkins all about slowing down media.
Thank you again for tuning in. Take care and I’ll see you again soon.
About Jasmin
Jasmin Malik Chua is the sourcing and labor at Sourcing Journal, where she writes about the apparel and footwear supply chain through the lens of sustainability and human rights.
Connect with Jasmin on Twitter: @jasminchua
