In this episode, Trisha is also talking about:

•  Why fashion companies are stuck at this surface level view of diversity, rather than really addressing inclusivity at a root level
• The negative perceptions of secondhand that Queenly was (and continues to be) up against in the formalwear industry
• The challenges of securing funding as a women-founded business
• How tech can be used to increase accessibility to secondhand 
• And how Queenly is building an authentically inclusive fashion business

Tune in to this episode of the Conscious Style Podcast below, or on your favorite podcast app

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Read the Transcript From This Interview:

TRISHA 

So I’m Trisha Bantigue. I’m the CEO and Co-founder of Queenly. And a little bit about my background is that I graduated from UC Berkeley. And soon afterwards, I just started working in tech. 

So I’ve worked at Google, Facebook, and most recently, Uber, where I did executive recruiting for engineering and products. So I was definitely very close with the CTO of Uber and various executives, which led to them really being our first investors of Queenly when I left.

And so I was born in the Philippines, and I emigrated to the United States at the age of 10, specifically, Las Vegas, Nevada. And due to various childhood hardships that I experienced, I ended up emancipating myself at the age of 17. 

So going to UC Berkeley, I was fully independent. And it was just really hard having this big fat out-of-state tuition fee, where I had to really figure out how to pay it off and survive in the Bay Area. I took on a bunch of different jobs, as well as I found out that pageant organizations were actually one of the biggest scholarship givers to young women in the United States. 

And I thought to myself, you know, how hard could this be? It was actually pretty hard. But I ended up loving the whole experience, and never in a million years that I really think that one day I would compete in a beauty pageant. 

But one thing led to another. And when I got there, it pretty much broke every single stereotype that I had about the industry and the women just because the women I met there were one of the most talented, intelligent, kind-hearted human beings I’ve ever encountered. And they were like Ph.D. scientists, entrepreneurs, lawyers, etc. And it really just inspired me, right? It’s like, the new modern day definition of what it means to be a woman and modern day definition of feminism is, you can do both, right. 

And so the pain point that I kept seeing was that these women were having a hard time finding and affording the evening gown, which is usually the main piece of a pageant, and these gowns were hundreds, if not thousands of dollars. And women are just like different heights, different shapes and sizes and skin tones, right. So it’s just really hard process. 

And due to my experience in tech, I just thought to myself, you know, there should be a better way for this for the whole formalwear industry. And especially because it’s not just pageants, there’s, you know, all these different special occasion events that women go through in their lifetime, such as prom, Quinceaneras, sorority formals, weddings, galas, like military balls. You know, there’s just so many things. And I just thought that there wasn’t really any safe and secure way to do it online. And nor were like existing platforms, providing a good way to do it. So that’s what led to Queenly.

ELIZABETH

I think that leads into sort of the first question that I had for you quite well, which is your background informs Queenly’s mission today and democratizing the pageant industry, as well as democratizing sustainability. So, can you tell us a little bit more about how you’re increasing access to formalwear, and also to more sustainable fashion, alternative approaches to fashion at Queenly?

TRISHA 

Yeah, sure, this is great, because, you know, that’s really the whole goal of Queenly. And the whole concept of resale, recommerce, and online marketplaces have been around for at least 10 to 15 years, and they’ve been common. But unfortunately, for this specific industry, it’s very new. 

And what we’ve encountered when starting is that majority of the access to formal wear is still predominantly offline. Meaning they only exist in brick and mortar stores, and within like designers and manufacturers, and there hasn’t really been this direct supply chain to access all of this inventory. 

And so it makes it really hard for women that don’t have like a common size or a different body shape, right, that they have to cater to. And what we’ve heard is that a lot of our users used to drive two to three hours out to even get to their nearest boutique store. Right? 

So we saw that wow, this is just extremely like outdated and old school and we’d love to help.

And so what we’ve been able to do is bring a lot of this inventory online as well as we asked a lot of people, you know, the dresses that they’ve worn to their prom, their wedding or any kind of formal event, they’ve only worn it once and with the rise of social media nowadays, you know, people don’t want to wear it twice or three times because it’s already on their Instagram. So it just stays in the closet. 

And because when you put formal wear on to let’s say Poshmark, or Mercari where it’s some more so a generic marketplace, like, you can find anything from snow tires and bath towels, you know, the search accuracy for formal wear is really, really bad. 

And so a lot of these dresses don’t get sold within like two years. And that’s a long time to wait. So they just get discouraged.

And so what we’ve been able to do is really put it together, centralize all of the formalwear. So whether that’s cocktail, mermaid ball gowns, etc., for any type of event, it’s on Queenly. 

Because of my co-founder’s work experience from Pinterest, she’s a senior software engineer, and our CTO now, she’s been able to create the most robust and accurate search engine for formalwear.

ELIZABETH

Oh, wow, cool. I didn’t realize that connection with Pinterest. But Pinterest has like really advanced image search functionality. So that makes sense. 

TRISHA

Yes!

ELIZABETH

Yeah, I totally see that with like, these generic marketplaces not being great for something super specific, like formalwear, like there’s a specific occasion and specific occasions sort of have different standards. 

And there’s so many layers of like, what length of the dress, what level of formality and then, of course, the sizing, and there’s so much to sort by it really warrants a separate marketplace for that.

TRISHA

Exactly.

ELIZABETH

So in addition to your core business model, increasing access to formalwear, you also have a really holistic view of diversity and inclusion embedded into your company at every level, as we talked about in our previous chat. So can you tell listeners about your approach to diversity and inclusion at Queenly?

TRISHA 

Yeah, so we really believe that a lot of a company’s culture and work environment is top down. And it starts from the leaders, the co-founders that really lay out the foundation for it. 

And for Kathy and I, we are extremely progressive in so many different ways. And we want to advocate for a lot of the underrepresented communities. And that is something that we really live by. 

And so creating Queenly and anywhere from just like our employees, to the models that we hire, to the features that we build for our users, we really have diversity and inclusion at the forefront of it. 

So for us right now, we have an amazing all-female engineering team, which is like super rare, but I guess, very fitting for our business.

And also, you know, for our photoshoot campaigns that we use for our website, our app, our marketing materials, our paid ads, etc, we always wanted to make sure that we create real diversity, and not just like one token Black model, or one token, you know, plus-size model. And we’ve been able to hire so many different types of faces, right. 

And one thing that I’m really proud of is that since the beginning, we’ve actually hired a handful of trans woman models. And you know, like, we never wanted to be like, Okay, we’re only going to do this for Pride [month]. No, we’re doing this, like, as a basis, we’re doing this as a regular thing. And so what we really stand for is going out of our way to really include everyone that we, you know, that we represent on our app. So that’s kind of just what we do.

ELIZABETH

You’re really setting the bar for other companies to hopefully, you know, strive towards that as well, because it’s just so important to be considering that at every level; every aspect of your company. 

And so at Queenly, you’re also very intentional about size inclusivity, not only in model representation, but also on your website. So how do you ensure that there is size inclusivity on Queenly, even though it is a peer-to-peer reselling platform, and you don’t own the inventory? Like how do you still try to prioritize size inclusivity?

TRISHA 

Yeah, so I think in the very beginning, so we started out as purely peer to peer. Due to COVID the past two years, we actually launched an extension of Queenly called Queenly partners, where we were able to partner with small businesses that are boutique stores or smaller designer brands that really didn’t have a way to make revenue during the lockdowns. Right.

And so now we both have brand new inventory from these stores that had a lot of trouble moving inventory in their store, as well as peer-to-peer right from a women’s closet. And I think the beauty of the model of peer to peer is that you allow for the control of the inventory to be democratized. 

And what I mean by that is that usually when there’s like one brand, one manufacturer, and one team that handles the decisions, right, they’re going to decide, okay, let’s have sizes zero to size 12, because that’s the most popular, and that’s where we’ll get the most profit back. 

And really, a lot of brands think about that, where it’s not really profitable to have sizes that are over, let’s just say, 24, sizes 24, 26, 28. And that’s really where like the plus size women have a lot of trouble is when they shop online, they don’t even have any options at all. 

So now when we give the access and the control to our users to the community, is that they’re able to provide the inventory that usually brands lacked prior. Right? 

So opening it up to more plus size women to pretty much be this community to each other and to provide other plus size woman their own dresses that they fit is really the beauty of having a peer to peer model.

ELIZABETH

Yeah, yeah, it’s such a good point. So why do you think that fashion companies maybe specifically in the formalwear industry, if you feel more comfortable speaking to that, why do you think that they are more stuck at this surface level of inclusion, diversity, and representation? You know, stuck at this tokenism still and not really taking it to the next level?

TRISHA

Yeah. So for me personally, just like, my personal opinion, and based off of the experiences that I’ve seen, and the interactions that I’ve had, with the existing, older establishments, within the formalwear industries, such as the brands, right is that, I do think that they’re afraid of change. And that’s so normal human beings are always afraid of change. 

And, you know, it just goes to show that there needs to be a lot more understanding, and there needs to be a lot more research done, when it comes to the positive influences and positive effects of having real diversity and inclusion. 

I think that a lot of brands still don’t really quite get why it’s necessary, right? And they stick to what they know. Because if what they know has worked, and it’s still working for them, why would they change, right? 

So I do think that, you know, not all business leaders are made the same. And frankly, a lot of business leaders are not thinking of the collective good of the community, and mostly profiting. And that is how our business really kind of like withstands the test of time is like, you got to think about the profit margins, first and foremost, and you don’t think about like, all of these different things that people are asking for, such as sustainability or representation. 

But the thing is, is that times are changing. And I think the millennial and Gen Z era goes to show that they care. 

We care about where our clothes come from, we care about like, what is the fashion waste that this does? We care about like, is this accessible? Is this diverse? Is this tone-deaf? Like, you know, we care. And I think that’s something that a lot of older brands don’t really understand yet is that the new generations care a lot more than just having a nice brand, if that makes sense.

ELIZABETH

Yeah, absolutely. And, of course, this is all conjecture, but what do you think would drive them to actually make that change? Do you think it’ll take until it actually hits their bottom line? And they start losing sales and losing profit margin for them to actually change… or?

TRISHA

Unfortunately, I do think it has to sometimes come to that where it hits them, where it hurts the most is their profit margins, right? And their revenue. And it really takes a collective of the consumers to come together and be like, hey, like, this is enough. This is not what we want to see from the brands that we wear, this is the representation that we want from you. 

And it’s hard, it’s hard to get everyone to come together for one collective cause right? And some, you know, right now, I’m seeing a lot more plus size models and even plus sized pageant women that are speaking out on social media saying like, hey, when I shop for dresses online, I don’t see anybody that is my size, my shape my look, and that sucks as a consumer, right.

And it’s not fair because the thing is, is that we’re all different shapes and sizes, but still we only see like size zeros and size twos online. And we still see like the typical just like blond haired, blue eyed models for a lot of these formalwear designers. 

And so right now the market caters to Latinas and Asian Americans and Black women, but we don’t see that enough. As well as, on top of that is the plus size models, right?

ELIZABETH

Mm hmm. Absolutely. And of course, when we’re talking about inclusivity, affordability is an element as well. And unfortunately, sometimes affordability can come at the cost of other people in the supply chain, you know, paying inhumane wages. 

But secondhand is a great way to access quality, and you know, eco-friendly fashion in a more budget-conscious way, in a more affordable way. 

So, based on your customer research, are most shoppers on Queenly, you think driven by affordability, or sustainability or something else?

TRISHA

I do think that affordability is most likely their second factor that drives them to purchase. And I say that because we have had so many customers that have purchased secondhand dresses over $1,000. 

So technically, that’s not really “affordable”, but it’s still more affordable than I guess its original price of $6000, let’s just say. 

This inventory can range so much like we have $60-70, to all our dresses all the way to like a $10,000 dress, just because there’s just so many intricacies to it. Right. 

And I think that’s number one, what they truly care about is that will they look good in this? Will they feel good in this right?

And really, that’s what a lot of existing platforms have lacked is that their search engine and their different filtering, and different categories don’t really cater to the different things that people look for. 

I mean, one thing that I found before is that people kept asking for mother of the bride dresses, which you don’t really get that a lot, right. And so we’ve created a category for that. But that’s the thing is that we provide the option for you, instead of just like, hey, this is like typically the price of just brand new, right. 

And so you have the option to go really cheap. So $100 dress, and then if you want to splurge on yourself, you can buy a $700 dress. And at the same time, it’s not at the cost of the environment. 

Fast fashion has really surged the past couple of years. I mean, to the point where, great example is the FashionNova CEO just bought the most expensive real estate in the United States for like $140 million. Right. 

And that is really like when I see that I know what fast fashion does. And that mansion was bought from the backs of so many service workers that are getting paid pennies in different countries and there, it’s not an ethical way, right. 

But the thing is what I’ve heard from somebody who is a plus size friend, sometimes plus size girls don’t have the option, and the luxury to not shop fast fashion. And it’s because other brands that are not fast fashion are not supporting their sizes. And so that’s really just like, you know, a plethora of different problems that the industry has to tackle.

ELIZABETH 18:15

Yeah, no, I think that’s super important to bring up because that is part of the reason why these ultra-fast fashion brands like Boohoo, Shein, and the likes are so successful because they are meeting that gap in the market for plus sizes. 

TRISHA

Exactly.

ELIZABETH

And a lot of their marketing campaigns are more representative than like the average fashion brand I would say. And of course, this doesn’t make them an ethical brand because we know that the people making those clothes are not being treated fairly, are not being paid fairly. 

And of course, they’re contributing to fashion’s waste crisis and the climate crisis but yeah we do see that a lot of these slow fashion brands or smaller conscious brands are not being very size-inclusive and so it becomes really challenging. And I do see it slowly improving in the secondhand space in the sustainable fashion space but we still have a lot of room to grow.

TRISHA

A long way to go, and especially with what you’re pointing out, like right now consumers have the option of the lesser of two evils, right? It’s kind of like, well, they’re not entirely sustainable, but at least they’re diverse, right? 

But at the end of the day, the ideal in a perfect world, like consumers want to have the best of both worlds and want to feel good about their purchase wholeheartedly.

ELIZABETH

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that we deserve that too. I hope to see a sustainable fashion future where we have brands that are treating their workers fairly, doing things in an environmentally friendly way, and also offer very inclusive sizing and have representative marketing campaigns, and are being truly inclusive at the core of their business in terms of who they’re hiring and where the money is going. 

And I think that’s absolutely worth continuing to advocate for, continuing to push for. Because we shouldn’t exist in a world where the only accessible option to somebody is buying something that is exploiting somebody else.

So unfortunately we are not there yet. But definitely, we should keep working together to push for that. 

TRISHA

Yes.

ELIZABETH

So I’d love to shift gears slightly and talk about how Queenly is bringing tech into an industry that was previously very low tech. You know you mentioned that women would maybe have to drive two to three hours to go to a boutique just to get their formal gown, their pageant dress. 

So what do you see as the potential of using technology to increase accessibility in formalwear and maybe in fashion overall?

TRISHA 

So we do a lot of things at the forefront of having technology in mind when introducing to a very traditional industry. So for us to even have the centralized inventory that is online is already so innovative to the industry, when to other industries, this has occurred, and it’s like nothing new, right. So that’s how old school this industry is. 

And so for us, so for example, for the partners that we bring on, what we found is that they have used so many just like outdated inventory management systems, where you look at what they’re using, and it looks like it’s from the 90s.

And it’s not user-friendly, it’s very slow. You can’t use it on mobile, it’s just like desktop or laptop, and you have to download the software, it’s not updated, like instantly in the cloud, like it’s just so old. 

And for us to be able to provide that online inventory management system for them it’s already super helpful. 

And we just have so many things down the line that we want to build. So one exciting thing is that we’re about to launch a community feature. It’s very similar to Sephora’s Community Forum, where we’ll enable a lot of women to be able to interact more with one another and help each other with their, or their outfits with their events. 

And just like rely on this community of women that want to help each other look like a queen pretty much, right? And so for example, if someone goes like, Hey, I am having a wedding at the beach next year, what are some like beach-friendly wedding dress options? Or like what kind of shoes should I wear for this, right? So that’s one that we’re launching pretty soon. 

And then we want to introduce visual search later this year. So being able to search with a photo instead of just text-based. So sometimes when you see somebody on Instagram or TikTok, that is wearing this fantastic red dress and you want to get it. But you don’t know how to describe it in text form, or you don’t know the designer, you can simply take a screenshot of it, upload it onto Queenly and our algorithm will match it with existing dress listings on Queenly or very similar ones that you can buy. 

So that’s really all of the, the things that me and Kathy have learned from our previous companies and hers, especially from Pinterest, right?

ELIZABETH

Yeah, that’s super exciting. I love that feature on Pinterest but that’s so cool that that technology, that visual search ability can be used for resale, for pre-owned dresses as well. Because now I think it’s pretty much all new things. But I think that would just, it will really elevate the secondhand fashion space to be able to use visual search to find pre-owned items.

Like I think about maybe 10 years ago, the only option was sifting through thrift stores, and even if you wanted, I don’t know a blue sweater, even that would be really specific to try to find that at a thrift store. And now we’ve just seen such a rapid improvement in the technology in the resale space. And I can see how it’s improving the accessibility. You know not everyone has time to spend hours at the thrift shops to find what they’re looking for. So that is really exciting.

But I guess unfortunately the luxury fashion sector in general has been slower to get into the resale space despite those items actually being quite good for resale. If they’re made with higher quality and they’re quite expensive, so getting as many uses as possible is quite ideal.

But there are still very much negative perceptions of secondhand whether that is a concern about brand reputation or concern about authenticity. I mean I think that in time these perceptions are fading, but they’re definitely not gone.

So have you experienced resistance on your path to building a formalwear reselling platform; an inclusive formalwear platform from consumers or perhaps more likely from formalwear brands?

TRISHA

Yes, definitely lots of resistance that, I mean, initially, like when I started Queenly, I just wanted to really help this industry, right, this industry, meaning the consumers, the sellers, the brands, the stores, everything. 

And I didn’t really think of all these, like different intricacies in mind that are, I guess, thinking that resale marketplaces are controversial, right. 

So that wasn’t something that I had really prepared for, right. And so when I started getting a lot more pushback from existing brands, we just kind of see them as the establishments in the industry, right. And we’re like the newcomer, that is trying to put progressive stuff to it. 

You know, it’s very, very similar to the luxury fashion sector where we’ve gotten the pushback of like, Oh, we don’t want our brand to be associated with resale or secondhand because it cheapens the brand, or we don’t want to sell online because it cheapens the brand, which that part I don’t get. 

So they’ve always said that, oh, we’re strictly brick and mortar, blah, blah, blah. And it doesn’t make any sense, especially when something like COVID has happened, right? But it’s still a very, very stubborn industry. 

And I was actually just recently talking about this with Julie Wainwright, CEO of The Real Real. So she’s actually like, one of the LPs of the funds that invested in us early on. And so she’s been able to, like, help me and mentor me the past year. And it’s just been really great getting to know her experience, like launching The Real Real and the resistance that she got from like, the luxury brands, right? 

And she’s told me that like, Hey, you’re in for a ride, because like, you know, you’re disrupting an industry that establishments, these brands are trying to, like, protect and like, control, if that makes sense. 

And what we’re doing is trying to democratize it and giving the control to the consumers, which is something that they are not too happy about, let’s just say. But I think it’s because they like what I mentioned earlier, is like they have a lack of understanding of what we truly are, and what we aim to do, and what are actually, the positive influences that can come out of us existing, right. 

And I wanted to always approach these brands with a mutual beneficial partnership in mind, because I think we could work together to really improve this industry, make it more sustainable without cheapening their brand. And I think they just need to understand that online is the future. Secondhand, pre-loved, resale, recommerce is the future and it’s going to help them. 

But yeah, it’s definitely been an uphill battle. But we’re fighting really hard because we’re fighting for the community.

ELIZABETH

Yeah, that’s powerful. And, it’s unfortunate to hear that, that there’s still so much resistance because sometimes I get, like my conscious fashion, sustainable fashion bubble and like resale is totally normal. 

TRISHA

I know, I know.

ELIZABETH

But a lot of brands are still very, very resistant to especially in the luxury sector. I mean, it’s a lot of the luxury image is exclusivity. So do you see working with these brands in the future,  like you mentioned, a mutually beneficial partnership? What efforts do you think I will take to sort of get these brands more onboard?

TRISHA 

So you know, it’s definitely going to be a long journey I would say just because they’re very ingrained in their ways of what they’re used to right? And how, how they’re used to seeing the formal wear industry. 

But luckily, there have been a couple of brands that are a bit more forward-thinking and a bit more open-minded, that we’ve been able to officially partner with such as Mac Duggal and Vienna Prom.

And these brands are really, I would say, are at the forefront of bettering the formalwear industry. Unfortunately, it’s not really seen as that yet from the other brands who are reluctant to go online and to partner with us. But what we’ve been able to do is really, because we have this access to hundreds of thousands of Queenly users that are looking and searching and browsing every single day, and so having your brand and your inventory available on our platform is actually a very positive thing. 

And for you to be associated with a brand that is inclusive, that is diverse, that is sustainable, you know, it helps your brand, it doesn’t cheapen your brand. I think it, you know, I strongly believe that it helps them. 

And for us, like the things that we want to build in the future is that it’s going to benefit these designer brands at the end of the day, such as the image search, right? Because sometimes, like people don’t know that it’s a Mac Duggal dress, but if you upload the image on Queenly, and we say, Hey, here’s the Mac Duggal dress that you’re looking for, here you go, right. And so having that data of like their data really helps us bring their inventory closer to the consumers that are looking for it.

Things that we also want to build in the future are, we want to build AR fitting in the future. That technology is already here. I’m just trying to hire more engineers right now. Because we are just so constricted, we’re going through a really big growth phase. And it’s really exciting but obviously lots of work. 

But yeah, so I think the biggest hurdle is like how do you buy formalwear, a dress, a gown, from the comfort of your home, but not knowing how it’s going to fit you entirely, not knowing how it’s going to look on you. 

So everything else like T-shirts, jackets, pants are a lot easier to purchase online, because it doesn’t need to look perfect, and they’re a bit cheaper. 

But now when you’re shopping for your wedding dress, or your prom dress, this is a very important event, meaning it’s a very important purchase. So you want to make sure that it looks good on you, matches your hair, your skin tone, your body shape, etc, right. 

And so being able to point the camera that on your phone, and being able to take a picture or video to see how the dress would actually look on you in person is a huge technological advancement that we could offer these brands.

ELIZABETH

Yeah, absolutely. That’s really cool to get a little insider’s peek at what you’re working on at Queenly. So you’re obviously going through a big growth phase, and so what has that been, like in terms of like finding funding, and especially finding funding from investors that are aligned with your values since you are a progressive company and you are sort of pushing the boundaries a little bit? How did that process work with finding investors that you felt good about taking money from?

TRISHA

Yeah, I mean, to be frank, fundraising for female founders is hell, to say the least. And our first fundraising round, which was pre-seed, it was probably the toughest because that’s when we had the least amount of metrics, our product wasn’t as it is, today, the inventory is still pretty low. But that is the point of pre-seed is that you invest like so early that you invest into founders, right. 

And so I realized early on that it’s a numbers game in the beginning. And usually, the VCs and investors that I looked up to that I thought would match our values and the market that we’re tackling were the ones that automatically said no to me, or they didn’t even take a meeting with me. It was actually like, really, really sad. 

And we were, we had so many times where we just like cried and just like felt like giving up. But you know, we kept pushing forward. And by the time that we got into YC or Y Combinator, you know, we had pretty good metrics, and we had really good traction. 

And by the time that we were finishing our seed raise, we were fortunate enough to have been approached by Andreessen Horowitz, which everything that they stand for and their fund is just incredible. And it definitely aligns with us and how we want to build our team out, our company out. 

It’s definitely really tough because you’re pitching something that is very personal, and you’re passionate about it. And you’re just going to receive, like, so many no’s, and so many reasons as to why your company will not work out. 

But if you are really in this for the mission, and the goal of serving your users, instead of just like, the goal of looking good as a startup founder, or the goal of, you know, being rich or something, it’s gonna get tough, and it’s gonna be pretty easy for you to give up along the way. 

But for us, we definitely like able to tough it out. And I’m very lucky to have had a co-founder, that is also my best friend. So we were able to just like stick together and get through it.

ELIZABETH

Yeah. Well, thank you for your honesty about all of those obstacles that you’ve been up against in founding and growing Queenly. And it just really sucks that there is still such a massive gender gap with VC funding. 

But you have obviously made such incredible strides in growing Queenly to where you are at today. And you already touched on a lot of exciting features that are in the works behind the scenes, but are there any big picture future goals that you have for Queenly, and then of course where can listeners follow along and check out Queenly?

TRISHA 

Yeah, I mean, so you’re right, I definitely said everything that already is super exciting that we’re working on. But I think that what’s exciting right now, for me personally, is growing our team and really finding these, like gems of people that are very talented and at the same time, you know, underestimated. 

I think that, you know, what we look for in the team that we hire is that they truly care about what we’re doing here. And they’re not just here for the paycheck. And that they have really good values to start off with, because that really emanates right from the founding team to when we,  I don’t even know like grow to a team of 50 or 100. Oh, I can’t even think about that, because it’s so like, it’s exciting, but scary at the same time. 

But yeah, so for us, like we want to keep increasing the inventory. So increasing the accessibility, right, and affordability for formalwear. 

So this year, we are trying to expand more into bridal, and also like cultural related formalwear, such as Quinceanera dresses, and even like Chinese cultural wear, or even Indian cultural wear that they wear for like weddings and formal events, right? 

Historically, these are garments that have been extremely hard to find in the US. And so we’d love to introduce that soon. 

And I think something in the future that’s also exciting is that we want to also tackle competition wear. 

So you know, we focus on high price inventory with low usage, meaning it’s perfect for the circular economy of resale, right. So this is ballroom dancing competition wear, ice skating wear, gymnastics wear right. 

So these are all like, things that are very, very hard to find, very expensive, and typically only worn once.

ELIZABETH

Yeah, that’s really exciting. When I was growing up, I did a lot of dance competitions, and the costumes are so expensive, and there wasn’t really a secondhand market for that. But yeah, they can, I mean, it can really add up. So that’s really cool.

TRISHA 

Yeah. Oh, and of course, like everyone can find us on queenly.com, it’s q-u-e-e-n-l-y dot com. And we are in the App Store. So all you have to do is search up Queenly, we will show up, we’re the only one that says Queenly. And we’re also in the Google Play Store for Android app.

ELIZABETH

Cool. And I’ll make sure that all of those links are in the episode description. 

So I have one final question for you that I asked each guest that comes on to the show. And that is: what would a better future for fashion look like to you?

TRISHA

To me, a better future for fashion… definitely two parts. Is that one, it doesn’t come at the cost of others. And two that it makes people feel empowered and confident because they are able to find the size that they wear and that they’re able to afford the price that they have budgeted for. 

And so really I want to see the fashion industry not make anyone feel like crap. And I think for the longest time, you know, the fashion industry has definitely catered more towards the wealthy, I would say and more so people that are low income would look at photos of influencers online and think like, wow, I could never afford that. I could never look like that. I could never find a dress or a skirt that would fit me that looks like that. And that sucks, right? 

I think that’s a really ambitious but possible goal for the future of the fashion industry is to truly include everyone and make sure that everyone feels confident and beautiful and empowered in what they’re able to wear. 

ELIZABETH

And that’s a wrap for this episode with Trisha! 

Thank you so much for tuning in today — I hope that you enjoyed this conversation. If you did like this episode, it would mean so much if you shared this episode with a friend or screenshotted it and shared it on social media. You can connect with me and this podcast @consciousstyle on Instagram and you can find Queenly @queenlyapp. 

And if you are looking for more resources on sustainable fashion, sign up for our weekly newsletter, The Conscious Edit. 

In these free newsletters, I share articles, podcast episodes, brands to check out, campaigns to support, and more. Subscribers also get access to a 10-page list of Sustainable Fashion Educational Resources. So that’s a nice bonus, I think. And you can sign up for all of that at consciouslifeandstyle.com/edit.

Alright, that’s all I have for you for now, until next Tuesday’s episode. In the meantime, I hope to be able to connect with you over on Instagram or via the newsletter. 

So, thank you again for listening today, and have a lovely rest of your week!

About Trisha

Trisha Bantigue is the CEO and co-founder of Queenly, the leading online marketplace for the formalwear industry. She was recently featured on the Forbes 30 Under 30 2022 list and she was the cover for the Art & Style category. She was born in the Philippines and immigrated to the US at the age of 10. 

Prior to founding Queenly, Trisha has worked at some of the biggest tech companies like Google, Facebook and Uber. Coming from a low-income, immigrant background, she found the opportunity to gain scholarship awards through competing in pageants. Then, she found her initial inspiration for starting Queenly from this unique experience and seeing so many women struggle to find and afford their dream dress for their special event.

Connect with Queenly 

Queenly app on Google Play Store

Queenly app on Apple Store

Queenly.com

Instagram: @queenlyapp

The post Democratizing Formalwear and Building an Inclusive Fashion Business appeared first on Conscious Life & Style.

In this interview, Niha is shedding light on:

• How the fashion ecosystem in India — from the fiber cultivation to the production of garments — is inherently sustainable, and what we can learn from that
• The connections between cultural preservation with social and ecological sustainability
• How brands and individuals can avoid cultural appropriation
• And then what true cooperation or co-creation with artisans looks like, and more.

Tune in to this episode of the Conscious Style Podcast below, or on your favorite podcast app.

Quick Links: Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pandora, or Google Podcasts.

The transcript of this episode of the Conscious Style Podcast is below.

ELIZABETH JOY:

Hey there, and welcome or welcome back to the show. Today we are talking about a really important topic in conscious fashion, that I don’t think gets enough attention. And that is cultural sustainability, or cultural preservation.

To discuss this topic, I am chatting with the incredible Niha Elety, an artist and activist using her Instagram platform to amplify and incorporate Indian heritage to bring inclusivity to sustainable fashion and environmental movements.

Niha is also the founder and co-creator of the sustainable fashion brand Tega Collective, which she will talk more about in this interview.

Niha will also be shedding light on how the fashion ecosystem in India — from the fiber cultivation to the production of garments — is inherently sustainable, and what we can learn from that; the connections between cultural preservation with social and ecological sustainability; how brands and individuals can avoid cultural appropriation, and what true cooperation or co-creation with artisans really looks like; and more.

If you’re not already, make sure to hit subscribe or follow so that you do not miss any future conscious fashion conversations like this one!

And if you are enjoying the Conscious Style Podcast so far, it would really help the show a ton if you took a moment to give it a rating and review on Apple Podcasts.

Thank you so much in advance for your support.

Okay, now let’s head into this interview with Niha sharing her background and what led her to where she is today.

NIHA ELETY: I am a creative artist and sustainability advocate on Instagram. So my platform primarily focuses on exploring sustainability through the lenses of fashion, art and heritage.

And through this, I’m really passionate about environmental justice… including the knowledge of BIPOC communities, or Black, Indigenous People of Color communities, and really amplifying that.

But what really led me to where I am today is sort of how I grew up.

So I was born in the US, in Dallas, Texas, and the way I saw sustainability was very different.

A lot of the focus was on recycling. But in terms of accessibility, it was always pretty difficult to access things like farmers markets, or even being able to understand how clothes were made — I could not fully comprehend that at the young age that I was at.

But that’s primarily when I started learning about art and design work was at the age of five.

And then when I moved from the US to India, I developed a lot of knowledge from a South Asian lens of what sustainability could look like, and I saw a contrast.

So when I was in India, for about 11 years now, I noticed a big difference in terms of accessibility. The way that we are connected to the clothes that we make, you’re able to have incredible relationships with your local farmers, your local tailors, weavers, and artisans.

And it’s all a lot more accessible than it is in the US.

In India, sustainability was just a part of the culture. Whereas in the West, it just felt like something that we had to go out of our ways to embrace.

So that’s sort of what inspired me to create on Instagram.

It started off really small. I was just posting things that I liked.

But I’ve always had an interest in art and fashion and studied it in high school and on the side in college.

So today I am really happy to have the platform that I do and I am launching a brand with Indigenous communities in India focused on amplifying their culture and knowledge. So that’s where I’m at today.

ELIZABETH: Wow. Yeah, I always find it really interesting to learn about a person’s background and how that sort of informs their perspectives today.

And it’s very clear from hearing your story and reading your work, that you have such a deep understanding of sustainable fashion, going beyond say eco-fabrics, but really diving into the systems and the power dynamics at play.

So can you explain what sustainable fashion means to you?

NIHA: Yeah, to me, I think sustainable fashion is a very broad term, but it’s really about restorative justice for people and the planet.

And so having intimate connections with the clothing process, and the clothes themselves is incredibly important for everyone moving forward.

And by restorative justice, I mean reparations to countries in the Global South for outsourcing things like waste, and outsourcing manufacturing, which really reinforces neocolonialism.

So my primary understanding of sustainable fashion is moving towards localized systems, restoring native fiber-forming practices, as well as expanding the aesthetics that we idealize, such as Western aesthetics that have become very globalized.

And [instead] really embracing the culture and visual elements of the different countries that we are in.

So really understanding how we can value that. And also working with repairing our ties to the land and labor since those have been cut over generations, I think re-cultivating those relationships is incredibly important.

ELIZABETH:
Yeah, absolutely. And there has been a long-overdue rise in awareness in the environmentalism and sustainable fashion movements, that many sustainable practices are actually practices that originated from BIPOC communities.

And specifically, you talk about when you lived in India, sustainable fashion was really just fashion because the practices in India are inherently sustainable, so there didn’t need to be this niche of sustainable fashion.

So could you explain to us what fashion and textile production looks like in India?

NIHA:
Of course, and what you mentioned is honestly what I talk about a lot, because when I was living in India, sustainable fashion, to me, was just fashion because the production of the textiles was inherently sustainable.

Most consumers are aware of and participate in the process of creating their garments.

So India has an insane variety of regional textiles that use native fibers like jute, cotton, and linen that are natural to the region as a product of regenerative agriculture.

And these fibers are then woven by weavers on machines or handlooms. Handlooms are primarily something that we’re trying to revive in India because a lot of handcrafted things have been not as popular due to industrialization.

But from there, consumers also dye their clothing, work with getting different types of embroidery or block printing done by artisans. And they go to their local tailors to actually measure the garment stitches come up with the silhouette that they want to wear.

So this entire process is just very intimate. You understand every single point of contact from the clothing; you’re participating in the whole process.

In that way, the piece of clothing becomes extremely personal and it’s almost a treasure for yourself.

So this is really that definition of slow and transparent fashion that doesn’t exploit labor, but that uses local resources and supports local economies.

With the rise of colonialism and the Industrial Revolution, that’s what really cut our ties with the labor and planet.

So for me, growing up surrounded by the South Asian textiles, fashion is not just a vehicle for self-expression, but also a relationship to my culture, as well.

And that’s why I feel like it’s extremely important to understand these processes.

ELIZABETH: Yeah, that process that you described is so beautiful.

I mean, that’s what we need to be shifting to is that return to the relationship and the intimacy with clothing and not treating it as a disposable object.

And similar to textile production, traditional fiber growing practices in India are inherently sustainable as well, as you’ve touched upon.

So could you tell us also what traditional farming looks like in India and then perhaps some of the forces that have and/or also perhaps continue to attempt to alter these traditional practices?

NIHA: Yeah.

So when you mention what forces have sort of attempted to alter these practices, I would like to reference the Green Revolution in India.

And this is a period when agriculture was converted into an industrial system, adopting modern methods, but primarily Western methods to increase crop yields.

We started using pesticides and fertilizers, and this happened around the 1960s. And we were focused on creating high-yielding varieties like rice and wheat to increase food production and alleviate hunger and poverty.

But post the Green Revolution, production of wheat and rice doubled and the production of indigenous foods declined.

And this really led to a loss of indigenous crops and cultivation, especially indigenous fibers.

So this is something that, is continuing today, in a lot of states, in the north of India, specifically.

The South, I would say, has a mixture of using traditional practices, and also has adopted the methods from the Green Revolution, with high yield crops and things like that.

But what I’m really seeing today is a lot of farmers wanting to go back to traditional methods.

For some of them, it’s really hard, especially since all they’ve known is stuff that they’ve learned with ever since the Green Revolution.

So a lot of people have been trying to learn from the South and pick up different traditional agricultural practices from there.

These practices have been an integral part of the food production in India forever.

And they are primarily focused on mitigating adverse effects of climate change, and really promoting biodiversity, because these are native crops.

So a few examples are using biological methods of pest management that are locally available, so pouring cow urine on certain crops to move pests away from those crops.

Rice terracing is another example — it’s an incredible way to grow rice.

Another example is double-cropping or doing agroforestry, which is really increasing the biodiversity of crops.

So you’re not creating monocultures where it’s a bunch of the same type of crop, which can also be a place where there’s a lot of weeds and pests that are attracted to that.

A lot of these traditional practices really focus on regenerating the soil as well. And that’s one of the biggest things for us in terms of combating climate change.

So moving towards that traditional agriculture is really important.

ELIZABETH: Mhm. Yeah.

Really going back to these traditional or regenerative practices is so crucial for building a more sustainable fashion ecosystem.

So you touched on this a bit before, but because fashion is produced in a sustainable slow way in India — from fiber to final garment — consumers, shoppers, people probably then also engage with fashion differently in India.

So could you tell us a bit about your experience, and what you noticed about the ways that people engage with fashion in India versus the United States, and then maybe how the ways that people are engaging with fashion in India has changed, if it has?

NIHA: Yeah of course.

In India, how we interact with our clothing, and I would say specifically, our Indian clothing is there is a lot of intricacies and just time taken in creating it, and so we just appreciate it a lot more.

Whether it be hand dyeing, producing rich and vibrant textiles. We only wear these for special occasions or even daily where they’re all hand washed typically.

But with Western clothing, a lot of it was forced on us for years and years from colonization to fit Western aesthetics.

And over the years, this has evolved into something disposable within India, the way we value our own clothing versus Western clothing.

So as a culture of people, we have always taken extremely great care of our clothing and we’ve passed down our family heirlooms and really never threw them out.

But I think Western clothing has sort of developed into something that’s viewed as disposable.

But in terms of the Global North, on the other hand, they are focused on e-commerce. The general market is pretty fast-paced with trends coming out every week, and people consuming clothing quickly and then donating them quickly.

And then these donations ending up in Global South countries within second-hand markets, which now you know, these countries bear the burden of the waste of the Global North.

A few examples of that are in Ghana and in Panipats in India, there’s a lot of secondhand donations that end up there and have created a valley of waste, especially a lot of winter clothes that are not really necessary in that part of India.

So sustainability is really in the Global North sort of viewed as a trend or an add-on to business practice. But in our country — and a lot of BIPOC countries — it’s really viewed as a way of life.

And we’ve always had pretty sentimental relationships with our clothing because like I mentioned, a lot of us have gone to select our fabrics and colors from the weavers.

This intimate process really affects the way that you interact with clothes. Because I can go into my own closet or my mom’s closet, and she knows every sari intimately — where she went to purchase it, which part of India she traveled to what type of handmade work is on it, every occasion she’s worn it for and where she’s gotten the blouse stitch.

So it’s a very deep and intimate relationship.

And it’s something that I would really love to see more widespread; I’d love to see a lot more of an intimate relationship of clothing across the world.

ELIZABETH: Yeah, for sure.

And it’s so important to learn how different cultures are approaching or have historically approached fashion.

But unfortunately, there have been and continue to be a number of forces creating more homogeneity in fashion, with colonization, the Industrial Revolution, and then that associated mass production of fashion. And then, of course, more recently, the rise of fast fashion.

So what sort of connections do you see between cultural sustainability and ecological or social sustainability?

NIHA: Yeah, of course.

Starting with cultural [sustainability], I think this has been happening since the times of colonization, right?

India and many other countries were sort of banned from doing things that they were used to doing.

Whether it be British colonization, French, Spanish, or Mughal colonization in India, we were told, you know that this is not the right way to dress, you need to dress a certain type of way to be accepted by the colonial power.

And that over time, that really made us devalue what we owned as our own clothing and our traditional dressing.

And at the time, people who could not afford what the colonial people were wearing, had to wear hand-me-downs.

What we’ve seen with a lot of this, homogeneity in terms of how people were embracing Western clothing. And still today, we’ve seen that a lot of the youth have lost appreciation for their culture, and don’t really understand the value or process of creating clothing, because they’re just not aware of it.

So even now, all that is shown as fashionable is a minimal silhouette, or French and European aesthetics is what’s considered a luxury.

…And that’s all that we own or want to be seen as fashionable and that’s what’s considered fashion-forward.

And our own luxury, our own rich textiles are not valued in a global market the way that those are. So I mean there’s a lot of nuance here, and truly being able to understand sustainability in this sense.

But another thing that’s important to note is a lot of designers in India, or in Ghana, or different parts of Africa, just around the world have tried to dilute their ideas to conform to Global North standards, and make their items more wearable and more basic I would say.

That’s where the term Indo-Western clothing started becoming a thing.

So a lot of these pieces of clothing are validated by Western platforms and sold in Western retailers.

So it really reinforces the idea that we need to depend on the Global North for validation. And it sort of continues this cycle of exploitation.

In terms of ecology, like you mentioned, I think going back to traditional methods of farming, and moving towards native plant fibers, dyes, things our ancestors used to do.

Culture is incredibly important because culture isn’t just what you see, but it’s also ingrained in the way that we practice fashion and we actually continue these regenerative practices.

ELIZABETH: Mhm.

So related to this danger of uniformness and Eurocentrism in design, we can also see how the conversations around sustainability, sustainable living, or sustainable fashion sometimes promote this idea that sustainable looks this one certain way, and maybe even has this one certain aesthetic.

What is the impact in your view of narrowly defining sustainability and how it looks and how it should be made or practiced?

NIHA: Yeah, I think this is an incredibly important question.

Because there is no one-size-fits-all solution. That’s just not something that is a thing.

And I feel like, for generations, we’ve been told — or we’ve always tried to crave — what is the answer to all of our problems?

But there are multiple answers to multiple problems within sustainability that have to be addressed in different ways.

So looking at sustainability, from the cultures that lived it for generations, is the first step that’s incredibly important.

Because there is a lot that we don’t know that we don’t even know that we don’t know, right?

And currently, the conversations and sustainability all look one way, and they don’t address the root issues that we need to repair.

They’re very much addressing the symptoms, especially when a lot of the focus has been on technology.

I think technology is important in aiding us, but it cannot be the one and all solution.

I also believe in localizing and decentralizing the way we look at sustainability.

Like I mentioned, it’s not a one-size-fits-all with these isolated practices. You can’t really extrapolate it across the whole world and assume it’s going to work the same way.

We really need to localize efforts and tap into practices that are indigenous to the soils that we are on and go from there. So I think, narrowly defining sustainability is not going to help us.

ELIZABETH: Yeah, totally.

So it’s clear that it’s very essential that we ensure fashion is inclusive and representative of a diverse set of cultures, as well as approaches to sustainability so that we can get closer to this holistic understanding, or this nuanced understanding, this contextual understanding, of sustainability.

This, though — when we think particularly about design — this brings up the concern of cultural appropriation.

And so how can brands and designers avoid misappropriating cultures?

And then how can we as individuals also work to avoid cultural appropriation and take action on that as we work to make fashion more representative and inclusive?

NIHA: Yeah, I think this is a question that a lot of people are trying to figure out the answer to, and I definitely cannot speak for everyone.

But something that I think is really important is understanding how vital amplifying and centering Indigenous voices are and People of Color, all of their voices is incredibly important.

Because if brands do want to explore another culture, they need to engage people who are a part of that culture and collaborate with them.

Give them the stage and the voice and the design freedom, because only they know what their culture is, right?

You can’t sort of look at something from an outsider’s perspective and create it, because it’s also just not fair to them. So really giving them the voice and design freedom.

Something else that is really important is distributing the wealth and profits to the culture that they are profiting off of.

And continuing to do this work beyond just the collection, if they’re releasing a collection — or even beyond the brand.

I think it’s incredibly important to do that work beyond just that.

And as individuals, I think it’s incredibly important to stay vigilant of what brands are marketing… and try to understand, are there people of that culture behind the designs?

Are they being given the voice? Are they the ones doing the work and being highlighted for it? I think that’s incredibly important.

But a few other things that are I feel like the stuff that people probably know or not using things that are sacred to other cultures is number one, and not using things that people have been historically oppressed for as well.

ELIZABETH: Yeah.

So on the flip side of that, what does genuine collaboration — that doesn’t result in cultural appropriation — with artisans and makers look like in practice?

Maybe you can give an example of building your brand and how you’re approaching it?

NIHA: Yeah, of course.

So Tega Collective is this incredible platform that we’re trying to build that focuses on championing the different Indigenous communities in India.

And these communities are known as Adivasi communities, which is the term for Indigenous. And what we’re looking to do is really work with them and amplifying their culture through craft.

They have different communities that use different native fibers that you probably haven’t even heard of.

Some communities use Lotus fibers and create incredible pieces of cloth from them. Some of them use banana leaves.

So working with their indigenous fibers, as well as their indigenous designs.

So our first collection is with Lumbini artisans in Karnataka in India, and they do this incredible embroidery and mirror work.

And so really giving them the reins on what they want to do in terms of design, and co-creating with them, not sort of taking it over.

That is something that we’re really focusing on.

As well as letting them decide how much they want to get paid, and how much of the profits they want to be distributed to them.

I think distributing profits in the supply chain is incredibly important so that people at the top don’t have the majority of the profit.

It needs to be distributed as equitably as possible within the company.

So that’s what we’re mainly looking to do.

Really co-create and learn from their wealth of knowledge instead of imposing our modern ideals on them, and truly amplifying their knowledge behind craft in terms of sustainability.

Because there are incredible resources — one that we’re hoping to partner with is called the Center for Indigenous Knowledge in Nagaland. It’s in northeast India.

They have incredible Indigenous storytellers that want to create content and share and so we are working to also funnel some of the proceeds there and share this knowledge.

And every time the knowledge is shared through social media posts or articles, the communities that the knowledge belongs to are paid reparations.

So this is what we are looking at in terms of Tega Collective and doing things like this. These are just a few examples.

But I think this can really help create that genuine, mutually beneficial relationship.

ELIZABETH: Yeah, love that.

And I think that is really a model for what the future of sustainable fashion brands should be.

I mean, that would be incredible if that was just the blueprint with reparations, and co-creation (and distributing profits equitably).

If sustainable fashion brands approached it in that way, we would just be on our way to such a better fashion ecosystem.

Which brings me to my final question for you, which is, what does a better future for fashion look like to you?

NIHA: Yeah.

First of all, thank you so much. I really appreciate that you feel that way about what I said previously [about the model for Tega Collective].

But yeah, in terms of what a better future looks like, to me, I would say that blueprint is one of the things that really helps.

I think focusing on, like we mentioned previously, just the surface-level buzzwords is not enough.

And allowing for a lot of things like waste management, which is one of the biggest things, a lot of waste has been outsourced to the Global South.

These companies have just been continuing to scale and grow and moving a lot of their waste to the Global South.

And so I think this is one of the most important things to tackle because justice will not come with just technological advances and recycling.

I really think that we aren’t talking about a lot of these solutions critically enough, and they are very isolated — and they don’t think of the rest of the world.

There is a colonial history that gives us a much bigger picture.

So I’m seeing these concepts — whether it be circularity or recycling — I’ve just been seeing them used as marketing to greenwash and sort of tick a box without real change or impacts being evaluated.

I think what a better future looks like to me is focusing on these reparations for the Global South.

I think a lot of brands need to clean up their waste in places like Ghana and India where a lot of donated clothing is shipped off to just be in landfills in these places.

Another thing is forming that intimate connection with our clothing like I mentioned.

I think that is incredibly important to move to that better future in terms of really treasuring and valuing what we have and understanding everything that goes into it. That always really helps.

And making systems like we have in the Global South with weavers and tailors a lot more accessible.

Whenever we go out to malls here, having a tailor on-site. That’s something that’s very common in India, whenever I go to a mall, there’s a tailor there ready to take your measurements and alter it to your size.

Having all of that within the places that we shop can help a lot.

And understanding that we also need to have regulation for living wages as well as the quality of the workplace and products and really hold companies accountable for this production.

Finally, I think we need full transparency for the entire supply chain.

It doesn’t just start at growing the plants and creating fibers and creating clothing and going to the consumer.

But we also need to know what the brands are doing after with the waste. I think a lot of transparency needs to be in that area as well.

So acknowledging these ideas and concepts and taking inspiration from the Global South, but giving credit I think is the way to go

ELIZABETH:

And that’s a wrap for this episode. Be sure to take a look at the episode description in your podcast app for the links referenced in this episode, as well as the various links to learn more about today’s guest.

If you would like to spread the word about this show and help the content reach more people, you can share the episode or podcast with a friend screenshot this episode and share about it on Instagram Stories tagging @consciousstyle.

And if you are listening on Apple Podcasts, something that really helps is to leave a rating and review. Thank you in advance for supporting the show and whatever way that you can. For more conscious content, you can subscribe to our weekly newsletter, The Conscious Edit.

In this newsletter, I share recommendations for reading, listening to, watching, and much more. To get on that list, you can head to consciouslifeandstyle.com/edit, and the link to subscribe will also be in the episode description. Thank you for tuning in to the Conscious Style Podcast and sticking around until the very end. I’ll see you again, same time, same place next week!

ABOUT NIHA ELETY

Niha Elety is a Creative Artist and Sustainability Activist on Instagram. She uses fashion, art, and heritage as a vehicle to bring awareness about sustainability and its importance. Her platform looks to amplify and incorporate Indian heritage to bring inclusivity to the sustainable fashion and environmental movement. She is passionate about using media to amplify social and environmental justice initiatives and BIPOC knowledge. Niha is also the Founder and Co-creator at Tega Collective a sustainable fashion brand that champions Adivasi communities from India and their textile traditions. 

CONNECT WITH NIHA

• Website
• Instagram
• Patreon
• Tega Collective

The post The Importance of Cultural Sustainability in Fashion with Niha Elety appeared first on Conscious Life & Style.

Part two of our conversation is much more focused on the solutions, discussing how we can create a more equitable and intersectional fashion ecosystem.

Sophia, the Founder & Executive Director of ethical fashion organization Threading Change, is sharing:

• How we can get started with or continue fashion activism
• What artivism is and how it could bring more people into the sustainable fashion and social justice movements
• The importance of engaging youth in ethical fashion
• … and more.

Tune in to this episode of the Conscious Style Podcast below, via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pandora, Google Podcasts, or anywhere you listen to podcasts!

The transcript of this episode of the Conscious Style Podcast is below.

ELIZABETH JOY: Hey there, and welcome or welcome back to the Conscious Style Podcast. This episode is the second part of my conversation with Sophia Yang, so be sure to listen to part one first, if you have not already.

The previous episode was focused a lot on fashion’s colonial roots and how colonial systems are still really embedded in fashion today. Whereas this episode is going to be a lot more focused on the solutions on how we can create a more equitable and intersectional fashion ecosystem.

Sophia, who is the Founder and Executive Director of the ethical fashion organization Threading Change is sharing how we can get started with or continue our fashion activism, what artivism is and how it could bring more people into this sustainable fashion and social justice movements, the importance of engaging youth in ethical fashion, and more.

One quick thing before we get started: make sure that you are subscribed — or following depending on your podcast app — to the Conscious Style Podcast so that you do not miss any other conversations we’ll be having on this show.

And, you can also sign up for our weekly newsletter, the Conscious Edit, for episode updates and a whole lot more about the ethical and sustainable fashion space. I’m sharing articles I’m reading, videos I’m watching, other podcasts I’m listening to, conscious organizations and brands to check out, DIYs to make, and more.

So you can sign up for that at consciouslifeandstyle.com/edit and the link will also be in the episode description. Okay, now we are getting back into this conversation with Sophia! And to remind you, we left off part one with Sophia talking about the need to de-commoditize and decolonize fashion.

And so we’re picking up here with Sophia sharing her perspectives on how we can decolonize fashion and create a more intersectional future for fashion.

SOPHIA YANG: So intersectionality is a term coined by Kimberlé Crenshaw, an amazing critical race theory author who’s a Black author. And she points to how different elements such as race, identity, socioeconomic background, and also how other factors inform our lived experience.

And how there are different issues — ranging from economic barriers, social barriers, environmental barriers, and factors that are not issues working in silos, but rather working in tandem.

And that’s why some communities face certain hardships more than others.

So we look at it from this, this lens, we need to, as I mentioned previously, go beyond the one-size-fits-all solution because what’s going to be working in Canada is not going to work necessarily in China.

And we know that but in order to actually implement these solutions take much more work. And also it takes a myriad of responsibilities — and sometimes it can take an army to do.

So, I think as we work to dismantle these systems, it’s important to recognize that the community that has existed in some of these regions, for example, garment workers in China, they’re the ones that really have to be the ones leading the work.

And I know that’s easier said than done, because Fashion Revolution has done a great job of educating a lot of people working in the garment sector about how to unionize, and how they can stand up for their rights, and some people have actually gotten killed for doing that.

So I’m not suggesting that they’re all of the sudden going to revolt and get rid of their jobs. I’m saying that for people that are going in and wanting to do the work, we need to have a robust understanding of the community.

And it’s more than just… I talked to them over five Zoom meetings.

It’s a matter of understanding how a lot of these systems of oppression have been ingrained in their family structures, ingrained in generational trauma.

And that in dismantling these systems, it takes more than just a western country coming in and quote-unquote saving them.

It’s also understanding how different policy instruments in those certain regions and also how consumers in regions where we are consuming fashion could think about how we can come together to raise impact that’s based on a collective voice.

Because the truth of the matter is, a lot of these garment workers they’re feeling very disenfranchised.

And why wouldn’t they?

They have generational trauma, people working in the garment factories like slave labor for aeons.

There’s lots of families in Bangladesh where they have taken their kids to the factory and their kids are there with their mom, as young as when they’re three years old, and they really grew up in the garment factory, right?

I think it takes a level of realism and understanding that there needs to be people that are at every single level to ensure that this is not something that can just be done with one group of people, but seeing how we can apply solutions by proper consultation.

But I also think that the western solutions, the reason why I say they’re not the best to adopt is because some of the western solutions are inherently rooted in colonialism with a western sustainability narrative really thinking like:

How do we define sustainability? How can we drive impact? How can we get a return on investment? How can we ensure that the way we’re speaking about sustainability is going to get the general public to perceive us in a good way?

You can’t be putting a price on people.

You can’t be putting a price so emissions reduction.

You can’t be putting a price on livelihoods.

It’s really about looking beyond corporate social responsibility and thinking about the social rights of people, of collective beings.

The rights of people to exist, and also have access to clean water, clean air, and shelter, just like everybody else.

So as you can see, the fashion injustices that are happening, a lot of it is kind of hidden behind this veil of corporate social responsibility.

I know H&M is a company that has, tried to really show how they are leading the way in sustainability. And perhaps they are in some aspects…

But you cannot tell me that you’re going to now have bike delivery of people’s orders and you’re now going to give people a gift voucher for taking their clothes back to be recycled, when you still don’t pay your garment workers; when you still don’t ensure that they have equitable working conditions; when they’re still embroiled in modern day slavery.

We don’t need you to pay lip service, we need you to step it up. We don’t need you to be there, saying ‘we’re doing so much to reduce emissions’. You’re doing the bare minimum because you’re the one responsible for all these emissions.

We’re not here to clap people on the back for doing the bare minimum, we’re here because we want to thread change.

And I think the reason why we talk about this in such a passionate way is because we need to be centering BIPOC communities — that is Black Indigenous People of Color — whose culture has always had a really great symbiotic relationship with the natural world.

When you think about a lot of different designers’ inspiration for their fashion brands, there are just so many examples of people taking inspiration from Chinese culture from Black and Latinx culture, and making different types of clothing and then yielding a huge profit from that cultural appropriation.

It happens all the time. And yet, there are still people in these countries that have to sort through donated clothes, people in these countries that don’t have any fair pay.

They’re literally embroiled in slave labor.

And I think when we think about posing the solutions that are centering these communities at the end of the day, it is then that we understand how the system at large was not built to benefit those in lower positions of power.

It was not made so that garment workers can escape.

So what’s happening right now with corporate social responsibility, is that it’s really just more of a blanket solution.

So I think working collectively, it’s really a matter of consumer education and awareness, coupled with industry transformation.

You cannot decolonize fashion and dismantle these systems, just based on one of these alone — it has to be a myriad of solutions.

And I think these two work in tandem, consumer education and also industry transformation with consumers demanding for change, the industry actively taking in the responsibility…

But then also government bodies and governing structures playing a policy role in what can’t be thrown out, what can be donated, what can be imported, having rules and laws against slave labor is really a way that we can get to a better fashion ecosystem.

ELIZABETH: Yeah, there’s clearly a lot of work to be done in fashion. And when we talk about these huge, deeply embedded fashion systems, we have to talk about big solutions and multiple solutions.

And we can’t ignore that we do need more than individual conscious consumerism to shift these massive forces. We also need fashion activism, we need consumer activism.

So with all of your experience in research and policy, working for governmental agencies and nonprofits, could you share your advice for getting started or continuing with fashion activism?

SOPHIA: Yeah, I love this question because I feel like I talk about problems a lot — let’s talk solutions!

So in terms of advice, I kind of have a tri-impact model when I think about the solutions. And this is kind of the model we employed at Threading Change as well.

So I think the solution, as I mentioned previously, is not just on conscious consumerism or consumer education. It’s not just about industry transformation. It’s not even just on policy instruments. It’s, it’s all three, right?

But I think talking to your friends and family, and understanding that your choices do impact the larger system and every single individual choice has an impact.

And to never feel little or never feel useless because you are one person.

Because your choices do have so much power. But beyond just shopping less.

I try to reject a narrative that the only way consumers can make a difference is by shopping or voting with their dollar. Oh, buy less stuff, thrift more, don’t donate.

Those are the solutions that are sometimes presented. I don’t think that’s enough.

I think if you could write to these brands. There are great templates on Remake. World, there are great templates on FashionRevolution.org, that have pre-made templates on how you can write to brands.

You can say: Dear Brand blank, I love your clothes, but I’m really concerned about the Uighur slave trade right now happening in northeastern China, I’m really concerned about people not getting equitable pay, and I implore you to think about x y, z. And, can you point me to more resources?

Another great thing you could do is to leave reviews on companies’ websites — companies really, really care a lot about their reviews. So if you like their clothing you can say, I like these pants a lot but I wonder if they’re made from slave labor.

When you pose these questions, as a consumer, it does much more than just voting with your dollar. Because even if you’re not buying from H&M, there’s going to be a bunch of other people that do, right?

So it’s very important to think about this notion of being a conscious fashion activist more than just a consumer.

Talking to your friends and family is also a very, very great solution because I feel like now more than ever, there are more people every single day becoming aware of the fashion activism movement, a lot of the solutions that people know about is still in the notion of shop less, which is not the only solution as I recommended.

And, I say industry transformation is also really important because industries are ultimately driven by what consumers want.

If consumers are demanding transparency, demanding traceability, demanding better materials, demanding that brands tell the truth, and tell them how much they’re paying garment workers, and demanding to know where do my clothes really go, and who made my clothes?

And they’re saying this in boardrooms, saying this in email templates, and they’re saying this on the brand reviews, if they’re doing protests when they’re allowed to happen in person outside the store, these are all things that will ultimately help the industry transform.

If you think you’re just one person that can’t make a difference, you can, you absolutely can.

And I think this industry transformation is happening in a lot of brands that want to be ethical from the get-go.

And one of the projects of Threading Change, which is our Global Innovation Story Map, is that we want to be bringing these brand stories that are doing the most in terms of ethics. Whether it’s traceability, transparency, materiality, recycling, take-back (programs), or equitable pay.

This is the reason why we have our Global Story Innovation Map. And we are bringing their stories to the United Nations Conference as a direct reply to some of these big brands being there. And we’re saying: look, here are brands that are really leading the way and they’re not doing it because they’re here to clean up their spilled milk.

They’re doing it because they actually care and they’re doing it since the beginning and it’s not greenwashing.

And I think to say this, in some ways makes me think, oh boy, this definitely is a bold thing to do!

But I think it’s important because I know people working for H&M and working at some of these brands that are really, really good people.

They’re not there because they want to see all these garment workers starve, right? Like they have a conscience.

But sometimes when you’re in the industry, and when you’re embroiled in making a certain cut, you have to accomplish this key performance indicator, you have to do this or do that as indicated by the company, you’re also trapped within that system.

So I think this notion of working on the inside to drive industry change is also important. So at Threading Change, although we do call out to all these big brands, at the end of the day, if they’re doing something good, we will still say I like that you did this, however, I implore you to think about it this way.

And one of our role model organizations Canopy Planet. They do an amazing job helping save endangered old-growth forests from being cut down for fashion.

And they really do that well by collaborating with some of these industries. And I think the third part of that is really the policy instruments that government bodies need to employ.

I mentioned at the beginning of the interview, that when I tried to find out in my local city, Vancouver, where all the clothing donations and textiles waste goes, I had a hard time finding out.

Because when I talked to the regional government, they kind of pointed a finger more at the provincial government on their textiles recycling policy. Then I realized my local provincial government of British Columbia didn’t even have a textile recycling policy.

But they had one for fire alarms out of all things, which is so random! But they don’t have one for textiles? And there’s so much textiles going to the landfill.

So government plays a huge, HUGE role in ensuring that we’re not allowing slave labor-made products to come in and ensuring that we’re not throwing clothing away to certain other regions.

But right now, this policy aspect is not really happening.

So I think it’s important for consumers to also write to their local MPs (members of parliament) and people within their local municipalities to ask where the clothing is going and what they can do to help.

So in retrospect, the consumer actually has so much power — beyond just buying less things.

And a lot of it has to do with keeping industry and government bodies accountable. If you don’t have the power to write the brief or to enact a law because we’re not the government, we have the power as people to come together to push for those changes.

ELIZABETH: Right. And we have so much power beyond what we do or don’t buy. Yes, that stuff matters and if we have the ability to, we should buy less, buy better, and I don’t want to take away from that.

But if we focus the sustainable fashion movement, only on our consumer choices, it becomes a bit exclusive. But then of course, activism sometimes can also feel exclusive or intimidating.

And that’s why I’m really excited to talk with you a little bit more about our artivism.

Could you tell us what artivism is and how it might be able to engage more people in activism?

SOPHIA: So, I come from a very traditional Chinese household where my parents really wanted me to be a doctor or an engineer or a lawyer.

And I kind of look back at it and laugh because I think those are all, really, really amazing professions and I think I could have maybe done well at one or two of them, but definitely not as an engineer.

And quick story, my Chinese name Yang Ya Cheng. Ya means sophisticated and Cheng is half of Gongcheng, which means sophisticated engineer. That’s my Chinese name.

Instead, my parents got a loud-mouthed environmentalist. So I think it’s pretty funny how that panned out!

So I did go to UBC and did a Bachelor of Science and I’ve always been someone who’s very, very interested in the arts, whether it’s writing — I’m an avid writer — whether it’s drawing — I’m not as good as drawing as I used to be — but writing is just my way to decompress and to flow.

And after the pandemic, when I had a reduction in my work hours in 2020, I learned how to DJ.

And learning how to DJ has been a really interesting experience because I’ve been able to talk about social change topics that I am very, very passionate about with those in my DJ community that never really talked about these topics.

As an example, I was setting up a live stream with some of my DJ friends and then we started talking about fashion.

I was talking to them about, H&M, the business models of Zara, and also how a lot of this labor is contracted overseas and how they’re pretty much in this model of modern-day slavery.

And two of my DJ friends are from Spain and they were like, wow, I didn’t know all of these things about Zara. That’s very shocking because Zara is a Spanish company.

It’s one of the largest companies ever to come out of Spain. People are very proud of Zara.

And I said, well let me kind of tell you the truth there…

So I kind of showed them some articles, showed them some of the research I’ve done, and they were shocked. And I think about how if we never had planned this live stream, I would have never really had the opportunity to talk about that with them.

Because music is what brings us together, right? Not talking about fashion.

So then I started to do this with other friends of mine in other communities.

So I would talk about fashion with my climate friends and start talking about climate change and climate justice with my DJ friends. And then I started talking about DJing with my fashion friends.

And I realized that when you use artivism, which is a way of using artistic mediums to further your activism — whether it’s music, whether it’s art, whether it’s spoken word, whether it’s dancing — you are then able to connect with people in an area that meets people where they’re at.

I am also an anti-racism and equity and justice consultant. And there have also been topics about anti-racism and equity that I’ve talked about with friends of mine that are not very involved in the social change space at all, that previously felt very uncomfortable talking about anti-racism and their privilege.

But once you approach it from meeting people where they’re at…

So in this case I met them in the terms that we’re all techno DJs, and we’re here doing music. But as we’re going through our music, there’s a bit of silence because we’re just kind of sifting through them.

I’m like, hey, have you heard about what happened with George Floyd? Like, yeah, I read about it, but I don’t really know too much. And then I approach a topic in a way that’s meeting them where they’re at.

And it’s been so fulfilling, having these conversations, because you understand that sometimes people are just afraid to say the wrong thing, but they actually want to be meaningfully engaged.

So through using music and my DJing as a way to do artivism, we’re currently planning a really fun month of events.

Not on a fun topic, though. It’s for Asian Heritage Month. And where I am in Vancouver actually was listed by Bloomberg on Saturday that it has the highest rates of anti-Asian hate in all of North America due to reported cases.

And me being Chinese Canadian, the pandemic has been very hard for me, my family, and my Asian friends.

I now have five friends that have heard the term “go back to China” in the last month or so and it is absolutely not okay.

And sometimes I start talking to people about this notion of anti-racism for the Chinese community, and they might be like: Okay, that sounds really terrible, but I’m not Chinese, so I can’t really talk about it or I don’t really know what to say.

So then I bought in this form of artivism, where we are doing a series of live stream events for the month of May.

We’re first having a policy discussion with different parliament members across Canada about the feasibility of implementing anti-racism policy.

And then with the second event being our live stream fundraiser for gathering artists, hoopers, dancers, DJs, live painters, spoken word poets, to come together and do a live stream to raise money towards different organizations working on anti-Asian racism and policy reform.

You just have to see that the people, the artists coming in, are not experts in anti-racism — they’re definitely not experts in anti-Asian racism.

But they’re there because they love art, and then they’re there because they want to contribute.

And by coming into their various artistic mediums, we are then able to drive further change.

I think sometimes that’s way more powerful than sending someone this policy document and being like here, read this and add your signature.

And they’re like, “oh okay, well, I did it”. But what does this do now?

They feel like they have direct buy into the cause and they feel much more included. I think that’s the beauty of activism, is that you’re really including everybody and meeting people where they’re at.

ELIZABETH: Yeah, that’s really inspiring to hear how you are using art to bring people together to engage people in these social justice movements who may have not been engaged otherwise.

There’s definitely a lot to be learned from that and from these events that you are putting together. And something else that I find really inspiring about Threading Change is that you are a youth-led organization.

So could you tell us why you believe it is so important to engage youth in the sustainable and ethical fashion movement?

SOPHIA: Absolutely. I think it’s so important to integrate youth because young people — so millennials and Gen Z that are under the age of 30 right now — are the largest consumers of fast fashion as an age demographic.

But, we are also the largest users of secondhand resale apps and also thrifting.

In our larger age group, while there are many fast fashion shoppers, there are also a lot of young people that are kind of rejecting that narrative that is really looking into how to be more conscious in their shopping, and then how to thrift and also use fashion as a way of activism.

And sometimes if you don’t think you’re an activist, refusing to buy from fast fashion brands can be a statement and a form of activism in itself.

Because the clothing is so cheap, and it’s so tempting to buy it sometimes rather than spending more money on an ethical piece. I think that is a statement.

And I think it’s so important to engage youth in the movement because as I say to everyone — it’s not just that we are the future generation.

We are the current generation. We are doing this now.

With the Friday’s for Future movement, and also with pioneers like Greta [Thunburg], and also the many Indigenous youths, people of color youth from the Amazon, and also different parts of Africa, and also even the youth in the Philippines that I’ve met at global conferences.

There are so many youths that are at the forefront of this movement.

And they’re not doing it because they want to get that award, because they want to be recognized, or because they want to go in they want to “save” somebody.

They’re doing this because that’s their community, that’s their livelihood. That’s what they know. They’re doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

And I think that it’s important to engage youth because there are a lot of up-and-coming designers that really have the power to shift what’s possible in the fashion industry.

I remember when I attended a conference in early 2020, before COVID hit, and I got the chance to meet the head of sustainability at Aritzia, which is a really popular fashion brand here in Vancouver… they do a lot of office wear kinds of clothing, but it’s more expensive than Zara.

And I asked her what is the largest issue facing the fashion industry today?

And she said immediately: designers being taught how to design for profit and not for circularity.

There’s a severe lack of designers actually learning in fashion schools how to create a fully circular piece, a fully circular garment, how to source material sustainably, and what to do with it after, or even how to use biodegradable materials to make certain pieces of clothing.

And if we’re able to educate young people about the implications of the fashion industry and how their choices play such a huge role, we’re able to engage a generation that’s really going to be thinking about clothing as more than just commodities, but really as stories.

So we’re a youth-led organization because our mission is something called the six F’s, which is a feminist, fossil, fuel, free, fashion, future.

We’re actively thinking about the future, of young people being the leaders of today and also the leaders of tomorrow, being the future.

We think it’s so important to make sure that we give youth the capacity-building skills, the professional skills, and also the confidence to know that they can do this.

They are the ones who will be leading the way; many young people already are leading the way.

And the reason why we’re youth-led is that I got to attend the two COP conferences as a young person.

I think there’s this unspoken respect when you are a young person in a crowded room. Maybe you don’t have the highest education in the room, maybe you don’t have a Ph.D., maybe you don’t have 10 plus years of work experience.

But do you know what you have? You have passion, you have grit, you have curiosity, you have tenacity, you have determination — and that will take you very far.

We definitely want to be at the forefront in bringing about these amazing young changemakers in giving them the knowledge but also helping them lead us along the way.

ELIZABETH: Absolutely. So how can listeners get involved with Threading Change’s various initiatives and campaigns?

SOPHIA: Yeah, that’s a great question. So we just had our Clothes Buster’s campaign wrap up in April.

And that was a really great campaign where we really demystified — or, you know, Clothes Busters was kind of like Mythbusters, busting popular fashion myths.

And I think with that campaign, people were really interested in the decolonization piece, which I mentioned a lot today.

And also looking at how different groups have really utilized fashion as a force for good. One being Indigenous groups in Canada. You may have heard the horrific incidents of murdered and missing Indigenous women.

They just had their memorial day last week, and that’s an annual event. They have something called the Red Dress Movement. And that has really helped bring this issue more to the limelight, using fashion activism for social change.

So, kind of building on that, we’re going to be doing a webinar series in mid-June all the way to mid-August that’s going to be talking about fashion and climate.

So in these episodes, we’ll be examining fossil fuel divestment in the fashion industry [and exploring] if that’s possible.

A company such as Levi’s has successfully divested, so we’ll be talking about changemakers from various not-for-profits that helped to drive this change.

Also [we will discuss] different materials that are being used in cellulose-based fabric. So plant-based fabrics, and what that means for deforestation and how can we make sure we’re not cutting down ancient old-growth forests.

And, also talking to people about how if you want to start a truly sustainable brand — from the environmental implications of emissions reduction, renewable energy, and also no water pollution, such as how denim production is very water-intensive — [we are discussing] ways that they can get started.

We will be talking to a few people from different sustainable brands as well.

I’m really excited about this episode because I’ll be also examining how to decolonize fashion from an Indigenous lens as it’s been used in Canada to further activism, and also further discussion about really important issues such as the murdered and missing Indigenous women and men.

And also in seeing how a lot of cultural revival of certain pieces of clothing and different modes of clothing is a great way to get the younger generation involved in better understanding cultural significance of a region.

So really exciting things to come in June for that!

We are currently also working to do various IG Lives. We want to do an IG Live once a week, we’re debating calling it Textile Thursdays or Feminist Fridays.

But there’ll be an IG Live happening on our Instagram with various different action activists, sustainable brand owners, and also different people working with brands to drive change.

I would also say that if you’re someone that’s interested to get involved with Threading Change, whether it’s in a volunteer capacity, or in a capacity to help with various projects, we would love to hear from you.

So you can reach out to hello@threadingchange.org. We also have more information on our website in the coming weeks and how you can get involved as a volunteer, because we’re growing at a pretty exponential rate, and we definitely want to make sure we keep up with this growth.

Last but not least, we’re currently recruiting for different brands that have various ethical and sustainable practices to be featured on the Global Story Map.

So if your brand is interested in taking their story to the global UN Conference, and also get connected with other ethical brands that are in our network, it’s a really good opportunity to cross-pollinate ideas, and also get connected to young people that are eager to help, and also to help get connected to investors.

So our Global Story Map we hope to be launching in August. So stay tuned for that later this summer!

ELIZABETH: Lots going on there! I will link to all of that in the show notes so everybody can easily access that and learn more.

To wrap up, one final question that I ask to all of the guests on the show is: what would a better future for a fashion look like to you?

SOPHIA: I think for me, it’s what I spoke about previously, in that graphic about equality, equity, reality, and liberation.

A better fashion future to me means there’s liberation.

There’s the liberation of people working in the modern-day slave trade to make clothing pieces for us.

There’s liberation in people’s minds when viewing fashion away from viewing it as commodities, and instead as stories.

Liberation in understanding that we don’t always need to buy that new collection; that new season of clothes.

Liberation in that we are free to be who we want to be without being confined to what society tells us we have to be in that we don’t necessarily need to buy this or buy that to fit in.

And that sometimes the greatest form of activism and expression of yourself is your values and choosing to not support these fast fashion companies that have really built an empire off of people’s insecurities and off of us wanting to fit in.

To me, a better fashion future is also one that’s not with the global race to the bottom; where the Global South are the ones that are always getting the short end of the stick…

Whether it’s their local textile economies going underground because there’s nothing left of it, whether it’s jobs being taken away because everything’s becoming digitized, whether it’s how all of our clothing garbage is going to the Global South where they’re producing the clothes but they’re not actually reaping in any of the benefits.

And instead they’re just getting exploited and they’re getting overworked, and they’re just getting lots of garbage thrown at them.

I think a better fashion future, first and foremost is also seeing how we can actually have a robust collaboration between the consumer industry and also governing bodies, and not in a tokenistic way.

So it’s beyond just people thinking, let’s do a diverse collection. Here’s a Black model, here’s a Latinx model, an Asian model, boom.

That’s not diversity; that’s tokenism. That’s thinking of ways how you can drive more marketing schemes.

So there needs to be robust collaboration across the board in ensuring there’s more diversity, and also the different collaboration of actors.

We need to understand that there are better ways to really be in the fashion ecosystem away from these capitalist models.

There are ways you could do this where you can actually do a conscious collection where a large amount of your proceeds will go towards women working in garment factories who have traditionally been disenfranchised.

There are ways for governments to get involved where they can mandate extended producer responsibility, where if H&M sold you that shirt, H&M is going to be responsible for the recycling of that shirt afterwards as well… because they’re the ones that made a profit in the first place.

I think there are a lot of possibilities of what a better fashion future can look like.

But it’s only going to happen if we have consumers, industry, and also government bodies working together.

I know that’s not something that can be done overnight, but it’s not something that we start tomorrow.

It’s something we start today.

It’s something that’s already overdue.

It’s something that we all have to collectively think about as we drive our fashion future to be one that is the 6 F’s: a feminist, fossil-fuel, free, fashion, future.

ELIZABETH: And that’s a wrap! For this episode, be sure to take a look at the episode description in your podcast app for the links referenced in this episode, as well as the various links to learn more about today’s guest.

If you would like to spread the word about this show and help the content reach more people, you can share the episode or podcast with a friend, screenshot this episode and share about it on Instagram Stories tagging @consciousstyle, and if you are listening on Apple Podcasts, something that really helps is to leave a rating and review.

Thank you in advance for supporting the show and in whatever way that you can. For more conscious content, you can subscribe to our weekly newsletter, the Conscious Edit.

In this newsletter, I share recommendations for reading, listening to, watching, and much more. To get on that list, you can head to consciouslifeandstyle.com/edit, and the link to subscribe will also be in the episode description. Thank you for tuning in to the Conscious Style Podcast and sticking around until the very end. I’ll see you again same time, the same place next week!

About Sophia and Threading Change:

Sophia Yang is the Founder & Executive Director of Threading Change a youth-led ethical fashion organization working at the intersections of climate, gender, and racial justice in alignment with the necessary transition to a circular economy.

Originally born in China but raised in Calgary, Alberta, Sophia draws on her multitude of diverse work and volunteer experiences as the drivers for her holistic approach and perspective on the protection of our environment. As a dedicated climate justice changemaker, Sophia has worked for over a dozen environmental organizations ranging from federal government agencies (Parks Canada, Natural Resources Canada), NGOs (Nature Conservancy of Canada, SPEC, Parkbus, CityHive), industry (CNRL), and academia (UBC, SFU).

Sophia is the recipient of the Starfish Canada’s Top 25 Under 25 Environmentalists award in 2017 and 2018, has attended the United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP 24 & 25) twice as a British Columbian Youth Delegate, and DJs as ‘THIS IS: KALEIDO’ in her spare time.

Threading Change was born because Sophia wanted to help raise young people’s voices in one of our world’s most polluting industries—the fashion industry. Doing so for our planet, and people.

CONNECT WITH SOPHIA:

• Website
• Instagram
• Twitter
• Soundcloud

CONNECT WITH THREADING CHANGE:

• Website
• Instagram

The post Creating an Intersectional Sustainable Fashion Future with Sophia Yang appeared first on Conscious Life & Style.

Sophia also shares:

• What equity is and how we must address exploitation in fashion at its core;
• The realities of racism and colonialism in not just fast fashion, but the conscious fashion space as well;
• And why we need to decentralize (and decolonize) the Eurocentric understanding of land and labor in the fashion space.

Tune in to this episode of the Conscious Style Podcast below, or on your favorite podcast app.

Quick Links: Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pandora, or Google Podcasts.

The transcript of this episode of the Conscious Style Podcast is below.

ELIZABETH JOY: Hey there, and welcome or welcome back to the Conscious Style Podcast.

We are diving really deep in today’s episode with Sophia Yang, who is the Founder and Executive Director of Threading Change a youth-led ethical fashion organization that works at the intersections of climate, gender, and racial justice, in alignment with the necessary transition to a circular economy.

You are going to hear about how colonialism not only shaped fashion but is still embedded in how the industry operates today;

what equity really is and how we must address exploitation and fashion at its core, and how colonialism is connected to fashion’s inequities;

the realities of racism and colonialism in not just fast fashion, but the conscious fashion space as well;

and why we need to decentralize and decolonize the Eurocentric understanding of land and labor in the fashion space.

As I said, this episode is diving really deep!

So if you are newer to ethical fashion, I definitely recommend listening to the first five or so episodes (such as What is Ethical Fashion? and What is Sustainable Fashion?) because the discussions here will make a lot more sense and you’ll have more context for some of the references made.

We are going to dive in in just a moment here, but I wanted to let you know that this is part one of the conversation with Sophia so part two will be going live next week!

So make sure that you are subscribed or following on your podcast app so that you do not miss the second part of this conversation because I promise you it’s just as good as this first part is going to be.

And also if you are liking the Conscious Style Podcast so far, it would mean so much if you could rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts.

This really helps the show and the content reach new audiences and shouldn’t take more than like five seconds for a rating and a minute for a review. Thank you in advance!

Alright, now let’s get to what you have been waiting for — the interview.

Sophia is going to start us off here with an introduction sharing some background on herself and how and why she founded the ethical fashion organization Threading Change.

SOPHIA YANG: My name is Sophia. My Chinese name is Yang Ya Cheng and I use she/her/hers pronouns. And I’m joining you today from the traditional unseeded ancestral territory of the Musqueam Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh peoples, aka Vancouver in Western Canada.

So my story starts when I emigrated from China to Canada when I was eight years old. We first lived in Calgary, and then I moved to Vancouver when I was 17 to go to the University of British Columbia studying Natural Resources Conservation.

I was inspired to really dive into a career in environmentalism and sustainability when I read an article at the age of 11 that was by Dr. David Suzuki discussing what kids can do to raise awareness about global warming (it was called at the time).

So I’ve always been a climate activist at heart, advocating for planetary health, and also the need to ensure that we keep our planet not just good for future generations, but for current generations as well.

It was when I attended the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change’s COP conference in Madrid in 2019 in December, where I stumbled into the one-year anniversary signing event of the UN Fashion Charter.

And at this event, it was essentially a convergence of industry leaders, government officials, and also those working in the fashion industry and also banking institutions coming together to talk about sustainable fashion.

For the first time in history, this was a landmark agreement with industry and also governments working via policy instruments and other forms to transform the industry.

It was when I was at this event that while I really felt like while they did a great job capturing the need for environmental protection and ensuring that we reduce climatic conditions in the fashion industry… I didn’t feel like we really touched on the intersectional aspects of fashion.

As we know, fashion has many issues ranging from climate injustice, unfair and inequitable labor practices, not centering gender equity.

And there’s also the lack of racial diversity.

I felt at this event that there was not enough recognition of those in the Global South.

Millions of garment workers around the world, 90% of them being women that are spending 90% of their day either making 10 cents an hour or not making any money at all making our clothing.

So I really want to start Threading Change — which is a play on word of spreading change — to really encapsulate the importance of upholding intersectionality and also justice and equity in our fashion conversation.

And in order to ensure that we are moving into a better and newer fashion system that really centers ethical fashion, which means we’re not just thinking about the planetary bounds of fashion, but also thinking about people as well.

So, beyond just emissions reduction, but more into how we can envision a better fashion system that’s fair and equitable for all.

And for me, I’ve always had a really strong interest in fashion. In 2018, I made the switch to change all my clothing to be thrifted, secondhand, clothing swap, and vintage. But another reason why I want to start Threading Change was I noticed that a lot of people around me are resorting to retail therapy, or shopping a lot as a way to cope with a pandemic.

And while I totally understand that,(I even did a bit of that myself in the beginning) I think it’s a very dangerous method, how fast fashion companies have thrusted this model of gross capitalist consumption upon us.

As Orsola de Castro said… (she’s a great activist in the fashion space, she founded Fashion Revolution) she was saying that ‘no one was born to want to buy 30 pairs of jeans in one year. We’re not born to be fast fashion consumers’.

These fashion brands have put these capitalist models on us and almost tricked us in a way with clever marketing schemes for us to think this way.

And I think that’s a very true sentiment in that in truly changing the fashion industry is all about people coming together and working within the intersectional realms to ensure that we envision a better fashion future for everybody.

ELIZABETH: Absolutely. So, a lot of your work with Threading Change is centered on equity. And today, in the fashion industry, while we are seeing some small efforts made by brands to be more diverse — or really appear to be more diverse — but we’re not really seeing any real shifts in power or real efforts towards equity.

For example, we see fast fashion brands with more diverse marketing campaigns, while they continue to exploit garment makers, who are disproportionately women of color in the Global South, and also sometimes in countries in the Global North as well; appropriate cultures or even steal designs; and lack inclusivity and representation in positions of power, such as the executive suite or the board, these people who actually have the ability to make important decisions in these brands and organizations.

Given your work in this space, how do you think we can get fashion to move beyond tokenism and actually be more equitable?

SOPHIA: Yeah, this is a great question. I think to answer this question, we have to start first by defining equity.

So equity in the very formal terms is essentially ‘the quality of being fair and also impartial’.

So, I think when we say we are working on equity and justice, that’s never to be confused with equality. We don’t use the term equality, because you may have heard or seen that graphic that really showcases the difference between equity and equality.

Equality is when there’s a systemic barrier in place. So an example… can be, a picket fence and people can’t see properly, and you give everyone the same height of ladder to make sure they can see over the fence for someone that’s shorter, they still can’t see over the fence.

Whereas, equity is giving people different levels of support to ensure that everyone is able to be on the same level playing field in accessing resources. Whereas, in reality, what happens is that there’s many times more support for certain groups of people, namely people in the Global North, in the reality of today in the fashion ecosystem.

And there’s not very much support for people in the Global South whatsoever. In fact, they’re mainly being exploited. And then the end goal is liberation.

Whereas, this systemic barrier such as defense is eradicated and everyone has equal access to resources without any further help because this barrier has been removed.

In the case of the fashion industry, when it comes to centering equity, the level of support that we must give — whether it’s garment workers or smaller brands — is ensuring that they have the same level playing field when marketing the products or when ensuring that they have equitable and fair pay.

And this is a hard reality to even envision nowadays, because the fashion ecosystem, the big fashion train, as you’ve probably heard many times, it’s among one of the most polluting industries in the world.

There are so many different actors in the fashion industry, ranging from suppliers, government workers, retailers, and, people working out on the design side consumers government regulation, that sometimes it’s even hard to understand who has the power to actually make these shifts in place.

And this is also the issue we run into. I have previously been talking to some Clubhouse rooms… which government body, which legislative body in your region has the power to actually try to get there to be less textile waste going to landfills?

Because I tried to explore this issue in Vancouver, Canada, and there was a lot of ping-ponging of responsibility between regional governments, provincial governments, and also different retail wholesalers. So as you can see, the ecosystem is incredibly complex and sometimes it’s not easy to see who actually has the power to enact change.

But I think once we address the issue at the core — the issue of why we don’t have equity in the industry — is that the exploitation of workers is something that needs to be eradicated.

And I say that because there’s so many aspects of fashion industry that consumers don’t even know that’s beyond just exploitation and lack of diversity.

But it’s also the fact that right now the fashion industry is one of the leading contributors to modern-day slavery.

As you may know, right now in the Uighur population in northeastern China, so the Uighur population, they are in that region of China and they are being enslaved to work 90% of their day farming for organic cotton, and they don’t get paid at all. And there is incredibly tight restrictions on who is able to access these areas — it is very heavily government-sanctioned and patrolled.

And UNICEF and also Amnesty International have deemed it as one of the highest forms of human rights violations currently.

And the reason why it’s so problematic is because even though leaders such as Trudeau, the Prime Minister of Canada, have said previously that they are not shipping Uighur-made products into Canada, and they’re banning it, stores like Zara are still able to sell their products.

The reason why this is problematic is because when there was people that were investigating into if there was Uighur slave labor in Zara supply chain, they had a sentence or they had like a web page on their website about a month ago that was saying that they don’t tolerate any form of slave labor.

But then about three weeks ago, this web page mysteriously disappeared with no explanation. And when further asked him to comment on the questions, Zara did not provide any more clarification. So, it’s one of those business practices like this that really makes you raise an eyebrow.

And even if we’re trying to better the situation, it’s still increasingly at a slow pace because these workers are still subject to various forms of abuse.

The other thing I would say that when we try to push for more circular fashion and more equity, it’s also the fact that we need to think about how these century-old business models of consumption and production needs to stop.

So the fashion industry really got a head start because they were able to really get lots of cheap labor overseas. There’s a reason why Bangladesh and China are two countries where there’s so much clothing being made.

The reason is because it’s rooted in colonialism. The reason is because there’s different trade agreements, that were enacted as early as 1930’s, that are now able to have really cheap clothing and other goods produced in these countries and up-selled for much more without people really batting an eye.

So these century-old business models of consumption and production need to stop. And the thing at Threading Change that we always say is that to get to this notion of change, of spreading the change, we need to stop viewing our clothing as commodities as materialistic goods.

And instead view them as stories, as memories, as the gateway to understanding and realizing the difference you want to see in the world.

ELIZABETH: Yeah, definitely. There was so much there that we could explore deeper, but something I’d like to discuss a little bit more with you is colonialism and racism in fashion.

So in the ethical fashion space, we often talk about these big retailers, these fast fashion brands perpetuating exploitive systems, specifically the exploitation of women of color in the Global South, as well as often immigrant women of color in the Global North.

And brands, like Zara, as you mentioned specifically, are perhaps the worst in this system enabling, maybe profiting off of slave labor, and it really does not get worse than that.

But while we don’t necessarily see this overt exploitation of garment makers in the ethical fashion space, we can still see some of these racist colonial systems that play with things like say, white saviorism, and Eurocentrism.

So, could you share your perspective on that, and maybe how we can do better in the ethical fashion niche or space?

SOPHIA: Absolutely. I just want to bring it back to Zara for one second, because I think this concept of white saviorism, I want to relate it back to this company.

One of the things about Zara is that they’re originally made in Spain and one of the true inequitable parts of the industry that really grinds my gears is that when you talk about fashion, a lot of people think of fashion as a very girly industry or a very feminine [industry].

First of all, there’s nothing wrong with that. But part of that is if it’s really a quote-unquote girly industry, then how come 9 out of the 10 largest fashion company CEOs are men?

So some of these companies I’m talking about are Uniqlo Zara, Nike, Adidas, Hermès, Louis Vuitton — these brands all have male CEOs, right?

So it’s a ‘girly’ industry… Well, then how come people with positions of power or executive power the top are not women at all? H&M is the only one that has a woman as a CEO.

Second of all, 9 out of 10 of these CEOs are white, of the 10 largest fashion companies in the world. The only one that’s not is the CEO of Uniqlo, who is Japanese.

Third of all, 8 out of 10 of the CEOs are based in Europe, with only two outside Europe. The only two being Nike from the US and Uniqulo from Japan.

So as you can see, the powerhouses of fashion where most of the decision is made — all that power is mainly concentrated in Europe, the root of a lot of colonialism in today’s world. This is not a coincidence.

And the reason why I also mentioned Zara is because Zara actually made over $10 billion in profit since the pandemic has started, whereas many other companies, a lot of smaller clothing brands have lost a lot of money.

I was on a podcast previously and a host when I said this part, he said: Yeah, I remember, I live in Toronto, in downtown Toronto, and every other store was being closed. But Zara kept changing the window displays.

It’s because they have a model that people will still want to consume even when a pandemic is happening because they have cultivated a culture that’s easy for you to consume because your clothing is applicable for every single situation.

While it is a clever marketing scheme… it is incredibly dangerous because Zara is also one of those companies that really popularized the really, really fast design fashion term.

Like Zara has been known to get a design, from initial sketching to the garment factory to the warehouse to the reseller, in as little as four days.

Can you imagine drawing up a dress, and then literally 72 to 96 hours later, it’s in store?

That’s how fast it is. And if that’s not the definition of fast fashion, I don’t know what is.

And in terms of what I’ve seen, the conscious fashion space and how can push for better. I’ve seen a lot of people kind of call these brands out, Zara included.

And I’ve also seen people that’s talking about the intersectionality of fashion, how it must also center people before profit, and also the planet as well.

But something that’s happening that I think is very dangerous is the white saviorism that’s happening in the industry.

And I say this, because, when it comes to talking about ethical fashion, there are a lot of people working in the space that are approaching the topic from a very Westernized point of view.

And that’s not necessarily their fault, because some of the earliest people discussing ethical fashion and sustainable fashion are from Europe… there are lots of companies doing great work in those regions.

But what’s happening is that they have a Eurocentric view of the different solutions they want to be put on to kind of advance ethical fashion and to combat fast fashion.

But we cannot apply a bandaid one-size-fits-all solutions across different continents in the fashion ecosystem.

It’s just not the same. I mean, take Netherlands, they can have lots of different programs and educational programs on ethical fashion, but they don’t have as many sweatshops right in that region.

Whereas you can talk about ethical fashion from the lens of China. But because China has so many more sweatshops and different factories actually making the clothing, there’s going to be different solutions apply to these different regions.

And I actually, unfortunately, experienced white saviorism in the fashion industry for the first time recently where I heard of someone that was working to bring Fashion Revolution to a certain country, but they don’t even speak the language of the country.

They don’t speak any dialect of the country. They’re not from that country, they just worked there recently, and they think that they are the right ones to bring the Fashion Revolution to that region.

And when I heard this, I thought to myself, hang on. That really, really bothers me. Because how can you ensure you’re working in a way that benefits the country, if you don’t even speak the language, you don’t even have the lived experience?

If you don’t even truly understand what’s required there, you’re still coming in from a Eurocentric perspective on what needs to be, quote unquote fixed, what needs to be saved.

The people in this country don’t need to be saved, they don’t need you to fix them or fix anything, they need you to stop exploiting them.

As a Westerner coming to a country and saying you’re gonna bring the Fashion Revolution, have you thought about how the word revolution in certain countries that still have different government structures that are a little bit more communist, or perhaps their government structures are more conservative... the word revolution might actually really, really cause government bodies to get very frustrated.

So there’s just these things that when I heard that this person is going to bring the Fashion Revolution to this region, I really was like, I don’t know if you did your research. And even if you did, you are not the right person to be leading this work.

You can be working, you can be supporting the work, but are you doing this work because you want the glory, the recognition, or because you are the one to do this work because you care?

And I think this happens a lot when Westerners come in and they care a lot — you can hear in their voice, you can hear in the way they communicate, you can see you can feel the passion.

But that needs to be coming from a place of deeply rooted understanding that colonialism is the reason that many of these countries are in the situation today. And you as a Westerner coming in and putting these Band-Aid solutions is not helping.

It might provide some temporary solutions, but with an industry as corrupt as fashion, it really has to be systemic changes that need to occur.

And sometimes that needs to happen with the government body and you collaborating. Just coming in and not understanding isn’t really going to cut it.

And I think the last thing I’ll say in this is that there are many forms of change-making activism that work in the Western world. Examples of sitting outside Parliament protesting, doing artivism, which is combining art, maybe even doing different types of petitions.

But one type of change-making in a certain Western country does not mean it’s going to work in a different region. In fact, it can be very, very different.

This is when we need to be realizing that unless we have robust prior informed consent and consultation with the community you’re trying to change… people cannot be coming In here and saying that “this has worked in this region so I’m going to come and try to do the same for you”.

Again, we need to stop the exploitation. They don’t just need to be saved, it’s really much more complicated than that.

ELIZABETH: So many good points there. And these are things that we definitely need to be aware of. Not putting Western solutions as the solutions for the entire world, especially considering that it is Western colonizers and imperialists, that have continued to create many of the issues in these countries in the first place.

So you’ve mentioned colonialism a few times and I’d love to explore this deeper in the context of fashion. So could you speak to how fashion’s colonial roots have shaped the modern-day realities of the industry today?

SOPHIA: So I think when when we talk about colonialism, it’s important to define it, first of all.

But also to think about how are we embedded in these colonial structures? Sometimes we’re not even understanding or knowing that we are.

And colonialism is when the practice of acquiring full or partial political control over another country. So we are still very much embedded within colonialism in the fashion industry, especially when it comes to economic dues, and in different business models that the fashion industry currently has.

So right now, China in 2016, produced about 46% of the global textiles.

(So that’s more than just clothing that also includes leather couches, and snow gear, for example. And also couch covers and carpets. So when we talk about textiles, it goes beyond just clothing, there’s many different fabrics that go into play. Just want to make that clear.)

That’s a lot. That’s almost 50% just coming from one country alone.

And Bangladesh is also very close up about 8% in 2016, the US of what they’re importing.

Now, Bangladesh is much smaller than China. And Bangladesh also has way less people in China.

So how is it these two countries are really at the forefront of all this clothing production?

Ding, ding ding, it’s because of colonialism.

And in both of these two countries circumstances, they were previously under the control of the British India East Trading Company, in which some of them didn’t really escape it until more recently.

In some circumstances, the government of these countries actually want the textile industry to be flourishing in these regions because they see all the different economic goods and all the different economic power it was bringing.

In the case of China, because there’s so much clothing made there, China is now really known as, that’s where everything is made.

And it started all in the 1800s, where lots of foreign imports from British India of cotton yarn, created a very large market for weaver’s in northern China, which is interesting because the Uighur population is currently being slaved in northeastern China.

So things are not that different than how they were about 200 years ago, even though we think they’re very different.

We just got better at covering it up, which is really, really shocking and really dismayed to hear.

In terms of Bangladesh, it was mostly before trading muslin and also silk during the 16th to 18th century. And, like most industries in East Pakistan were owned by Pakistanis during the region.

After that, lots of local Bengali entrepreneurs had set up their own large textile and also jute factories in Bangladesh. This later allowed a lot of British rulers and different garment factories to set up there, and then later also export their products overseas.

And another industry in Bangladesh that’s very up-and-coming is something called RMGs, which is ready-made garments. And they’re essentially a finished textile product from the Bangladeshi RMG sector, which is one of the largest growing sectors in the economy in Bangladesh with about 55% growth from 2000 to 2012.

So as you can see, there’s so much growth happening within these regions that sometimes we don’t understand why that is. But the reason why they’re there is because of colonialism.

Now I want to bring it back to something very important.

So 43% of clothing garments are made in China that are being exported to the United States and 7 to 8% of Bangladesh.

So and then some of the other countries are also Cambodia, Vietnam, Honduras, and Haiti.

But where does the clothing go after we’re done with them?

Most people are thinking we’re going to donate them, maybe I’ll swap them, maybe I’ll give them to a local women’s shelter…

The truth is about 90% of clothing you donate to doesn’t get resold, especially after Marie Kondo really popularized the ‘does this spark joy?’, the Marie Kondo-your-life-movement in 2018.

Some different donation centers in Australia actually experienced over donations because people were donating too much. The problem with donation centers that we think that everything gets resold or they get donated.

We have this very fantasy, like in our mind, where people are using these products, and we’re helping someone in need.

The reality is 90% of the stuff you donate does not get resold and they get shipped to places like Kantamanto in Ghana.

Kantamanto one of the largest secondhand resale markets in the world where they’re getting tons, like thousands of tons of clothing, in superduper large blocks — like a port size block — shipped to their ports on a daily basis.

And workers… workers? More like volunteers or people that don’t even get paid for any of our work, are spending 15 hours of their day sorting through these gigantic blocks of clothing. So here’s pants, here’s shirts, to later resell them.

But we actually had Samuel from the OR Foundation who does work surrounding Kantamanto in Ghana and making sure people try and get a living wage and raise awareness on the topic.

He was saying that the clothing comes in, there are all sorts of things on there like blood stains, sweat stains, food stains — they’re absolutely just torn apart. It’s garbage.

And people are donating them thinking that they’re helping someone in need. What they’re really doing is contributing to diminishing textile sectors of many of Africa’s largest countries, because a similar situation is happening in Kenya as well.

And what they’re doing is trashing the clothing to a point, thinking that they’re helping out these people in these countries or in these regions, because they’re donating. What they’re really doing is just throwing their stuff away and then letting someone else pick up the scraps.

This is not ‘donating’. This is not helping people.

This is actually ruining the local economy in Kantamanto in Ghana. And it’s also the case in the Philippines and also Haiti.

So what do you notice?

The clothing is made in countries like China and Bangladesh and Vietnam and Cambodia — countries in the Global South where people are working 15 hours or more a day, sometimes for free, making less than 10 cents an hour.

What’s even worse is there are actually textile garment factories in New York that are mainly employing Chinese and Latinx women right in the United States, that are still paying them about 10 cents US (dollars) an hour. So still slave wage labor.

So even people of this geographic region, people of Chinese and Latina descent are producing this clothing in the US overseas [too].

So you have mostly women of color making these clothing in the Global South. And if it’s in the Global North, there’s still subject to various forms of abuse. And you have most countries in the Global South Philippines, Haiti, Ghana, and Kenya taking most of our clothing donations.

It is hugely colonial what is happening to the fashion ecosystem. Absolutely every aspect of it, from where it’s produced to where it’s dumped. It’s all at the hands of the Global South.

What happens in the North? These capitalist models of consumption are really driven by our desire to consume, to have a new outfit, to look good.

After the pandemic, Aja Barber — who is a great fashion activist — coined this term called revenge shopping.

And I just shudder thinking about it because even after I started working in this field, I really tried to minimize my shopping habits. But it’s hard to do.

So even a thrift store, right, it’s like affordable and it’s thrifting. So secondhand, so you’re thinking that it’s beneficial…

But after you go even go thrifting, you have more clothes accumulated. Things get very cloudy when you have too many things.

And this is why we’re really telling people to think of their clothes as stories are not commodities because this overconsumption and this overcapacity of choice is something that’s really hard for us to make more ethical decisions.

And I know I’m kind of talking a lot about this because I’m very passionate about that subject area. But I’ll just quickly mention that another example of this [colonialism in fashion] is India.

So India has one of the most diverse and just beautiful stories of textile manufacturing, and also the local textiles economy have some of the coolest fashions in the world today.

What’s happening is that with the digitization of fashion, the mechanization of looms (so, looms are the ones we put the thread on, and you’re able to make certain types of clothing), that previously was done a lot by women or even men that were really sewing by hand, button-making, seamstressing, and that’s what really fueled their economy.

But the rapid digitization of the looms and also of this growing demand in fast fashion has made a lot of the jobs where people are actually creating the clothing go out of business because they are being replaced by machines.

And what’s worse is that a lot of these women that have such amazing artistic ability in sewing their clothing, and also sewing for others, they have this skill that’s no longer needed. Because they’re quote-unquote, ‘too slow’.

Because these big companies want this clothing at a very quick rate.

And I think that’s just so incredibly unjust. That there are these women with these amazing sewing skills, that can put a machine to shame, that are no longer needed.

So we think about decolonizing fashion, there are a few different aspects.

There’s a labor aspect where we need to understand that we need to decolonize our understanding of labor from an intersectional lens and that there are so many different layers of oppression in the industry.

And when we are thinking about solutions for an ethical industry and thinking about it from the Western perspective, I’ve noticed a lot of language around how can we do XX to have the biggest impact and to drive and ensure it to the triple bottom line for people planet and profit?

This kind of thinking in thinking about how we do social change is inherently capitalist, and you guessed it colonialist. Because we’re thinking of how to get something out of someone else.

When in reality, the fact that they have their cultural heritage, their significance, and they have centuries of lived experience of sewing, and also of understanding how to do these different kind of sewing garment practices is really what’s good enough to quote unquote ‘drive impact’.

Because these are the communities that have been here for millennia, who can speak the language, who knows best practices, and are people that really should the ones that we should be listening to.

Not these huge, fast fashion conglomerates that are saying, we have a new ‘Conscious Collection. Oh, and by the way, if you take back, if you bring back your used clothing, we’ll give you $5 to buy more.

If we just stopped for a second to think about what they’re promoting to us. It’s kind of ridiculous, isn’t it?

ELIZABETH: Yeah…

SOPHIA: I’ll just end off by saying that the second aspect of decolonizing fashion is around the land aspect and realizing that we need to have a fundamental shift of how we see the land.

So sometimes, instead of looking at the diagram and thinking how am I going to farm all this organic cotton? How am I going to make the next poly-cotton blend? How I’m going to cut down this endangered or old-growth forests to make more plant-based materials because plant-based textiles are in right now?

We cannot see our land is really dead materials and something we have to extract from.

These extractive models are the exact ones that are fueling climate change, that are fueling growth capitalism. We need to think about how we need to live in relationship and in harmony with the land.

There are so many aspects of nature that are really in tune with how we should be thinking about fashion.

Nature is really able to encapsulate how we feel in the moment, and to take us back — and that’s something about fashion as well.

I have this jacket that I have worn to every single protest I’ve ever attended. And I’m probably gonna wear it to every single protest I ever will go to. That will be my protest jacket. That’s a story. And that is how I think we need to be decolonizing fashion.

ELIZABETH: And that wraps it up for part one of this conversation with Sophia! Part two will be going live next week. This second part of the episode will focus a lot more on the solutions for building a more just, equitable, and intersectional sustainable fashion future.

About Sophia and Threading Change:

Sophia Yang is the Founder & Executive Director of Threading Change a youth-led ethical fashion organization working at the intersections of climate, gender, and racial justice in alignment with the necessary transition to a circular economy.

Originally born in China but raised in Calgary, Alberta, Sophia draws on her multitude of diverse work and volunteer experiences as the drivers for her holistic approach and perspective on the protection of our environment. As a dedicated climate justice changemaker, Sophia has worked for over a dozen environmental organizations ranging from federal government agencies (Parks Canada, Natural Resources Canada), NGOs (Nature Conservancy of Canada, SPEC, Parkbus, CityHive), industry (CNRL), and academia (UBC, SFU).

Sophia is the recipient of the Starfish Canada’s Top 25 Under 25 Environmentalists award in 2017 and 2018, has attended the United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP 24 & 25) twice as a British Columbian Youth Delegate, and DJs as ‘THIS IS: KALEIDO’ in her spare time.

Threading Change was born because Sophia wanted to help raise young people’s voices in one of our world’s most polluting industries—the fashion industry. Doing so for our planet, and people.

CONNECT WITH SOPHIA:

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CONNECT WITH THREADING CHANGE:

• Website
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